Thank you!Caiyros Arlen media wrote:Likes2Read wrote:Excellent advice! And judging from crisis threads I've seen when people have gotten in over their heads, it's advice that can't be repeated often enough.
But since Magnolia and Ash are often the cleanup crew for folks in crisis, when things go south, I would expect them to be very well-versed in where the pitfalls lie that beginners fall into most often. Not to mention, good knowledge of how to avoid falling in said pitfalls in the first place.
I do agree with you, and Yes _now I am going off topic....your last paragraph reads beautifully. Caiyros
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as this post seems to be aimed at beginners mostly (but definitely still applies to advanced individuals as well), i'm interpreting the black arts thing as "do not even try to mess with it until you have done this for many many years and have become very advanced.. and still be cautious/have your mind + goals set straight beforehand."
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I have seen several keepers go south who had been keeping for years. These keepers thought they were ready for the responsibility that a demon brings. Believe me, unless you are ready for a serious hard time, you need to leave BA anything alone. It is a responsibility that very few will ever be ready for.
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I can respect that! But I am Ramkht, and if folks come here with demonic friends, they will be around me, and I will hear them and there will be interactions. I see them and hear them and feel their energies. They tell me these are DA demons! Well, does such a thing exist or not? I cannot afford to hide my head in the sand, neither can I attempt to ask my crew to destroy every demon I see. I am Awakened, and my sensitivity to energy will only grow! Scary prospect. I have not seen these 'demons' leave because of a mass attack from our spirit friends, and my crew have not stopped the interactions, which they SHOULD if they were harmful. Confused. I will not make any decisions while confused about a topic!Huffette wrote:I have seen several keepers go south who had been keeping for years. These keepers thought they were ready for the responsibility that a demon brings. Believe me, unless you are ready for a serious hard time, you need to leave BA anything alone. It is a responsibility that very few will ever be ready for.
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Well said Mags!
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Well, when it comes down to it nobody should need to dip into the Black Arts, if/when it makes sense you must have a reason that defies any typical circumstance. BA is not DA. Understanding BA however is helpful from a knowledge and protection standpoint, if you are capable of being responsible with that knowledge and utilizing it only on the direst occasions where all other elements align for that to be the answer (however this is usually a paradox as, when all else aligns what you're doing isn't BA after all..)nezzuo wrote:as this post seems to be aimed at beginners mostly (but definitely still applies to advanced individuals as well), i'm interpreting the black arts thing as "do not even try to mess with it until you have done this for many many years and have become very advanced.. and still be cautious/have your mind + goals set straight beforehand."
Of course if you want to practice the black arts and deal with legit black arts beings for your path, that's up to you, but it is rather impractical and CH does not as far as I know advocate it under any circumstance. No one who actually has dealt with the black arts would advise a point when you can handle it safely, because there's no such thing as handling BA safely/to your benefit (we want magick and entities to benefit us, yes?) That situation doesn't exist, lol.
Readily one would exhaust every/any other more viable option before going there and one of those options would do the job.
So I am pretty sure they mean, practically never.. there are no goals you can possibly have that aren't achievable by the Dark Arts spectrum. BA is absolutely unnecessary nearly 100% of the time and will 100% of the time be unpleasant or carry an unintended backlash at the very least. Many people simply do not understand what BA really is compared to DA.
Once again, that doesn't mean it's wrong to have that knowledge or experience in some form if you are truly a person meant to have that, but it's not something most people should ever encounter or feel an urge to encounter on their path.
If you get to be advanced to the point suggested, you will not need to deal in BA unless to combat against others' recklessness probably. One may be fascinated by the prospect of Black Arts, until they actually become experienced and realize it has no place other than a dangerous novelty for the uninitiated. At that point the desire to tangle with it reveals itself as ignorance, and true respect of it means growing out of that desire.
Anyone that advanced knows how to do what needs to be done without flinging BA around.. as far as I'm concerned. BA is not 'more powerful' it's just a pure, uncontained force of blackness which resonates with the negative or disruptive at all times.
(This is, of course, going by the definition used here.. and terminology has been a weak spot in the community where people can't make heads or tails of anything, it's important to know how 'Black Arts' is being applied by Magnolia.)
However I am aware there are practitioners who seek to specialize in BA.. once again CH doesn't advocate that so they are advising against this. BA is a removal of will and choice and creates yucky, unintended circumstances for all involved - it isn't all that efficient or practical.
Unless you're spiritually sadomasochistic and want to inflict and receive unimaginable horror at the mercy of/enslavement to a current or an entity who doesn't actually care about your pleasure and would just as readily throw you in front of a truck when it ceases to be nourished by the spectacle.. it isn't something to aspire to.
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*gnashes teeth* and again, no one can tell me if demons are BA by definition, or are any DA? Angels are both WA and DA. So it makes sense that SOME demons are DA. How do you tell?
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SikruaSuncat wrote:*gnashes teeth* and again, no one can tell me if demons are BA by definition, or are any DA? Angels are both WA and DA. So it makes sense that SOME demons are DA. How do you tell?
The problem is terminology, even down to the term 'demon'. Many here who keep 'demonic' beings without any horrible consequence would agree by the common terms there are DA, and BA 'demons'.
There are those who work with beings they would call 'demonic' (including myself) and regard them as DA. There are those who think anything you would label 'demon' can only be of a 'BA' variety (CH believes anything which is a true demon is BA). This is about terms and that's why it's confusing for those coming in trying to really understand.
So it comes down to this.. if you are dealing with an entity and you want to know what it is, and what it's nature is, forget about the terms altogether until you can apply what makes sense to you, and just learn to distinguish energies and intent. Develop a precision of identification when it comes to this.
Or if it's a seller offering something titled 'demon', it would be optimal to ask them straight up what that means - are the demons capable of good and bad? are they only bad? etc..
Even then there will be less reputable sellers out there who aren't actually aware of what they are dealing with, or are outright lying, so it's good to be aware and discerning for yourself in any and all cases. If you are very uncertain the rule is to avoid.
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Is it terrible that I really only want to stay in the white and pale grey territories? LOL Sometimes it feels like all the really advanced people and the "cool kids" are working with DA beings and energies and I just... don't want to, for the most part. I want to know about DA and understand how to defend myself and protect others, but otherwise... I'll just be over here, playing with my white lights!
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Great guide, Magnolia! CH has been invaluable to me as a developing practicioner of all things paranormal
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i totally agree. i don't think getting near BA is necessary at alllll.. but i know people still do it. i think it's easy for many to say "well.. i can handle this dark arts demon/other entity just fine, so black arts shouldn't be too different!" and they don't realize the incredible difference between the two.. or the hell they just unleashed upon themselves. it is not my hope at all that anyone would turn to BA for any reason.Noctifera wrote:Well, when it comes down to it nobody should need to dip into the Black Arts, if/when it makes sense you must have a reason that defies any typical circumstance. BA is not DA. Understanding BA however is helpful from a knowledge and protection standpoint, if you are capable of being responsible with that knowledge and utilizing it only on the direst occasions where all other elements align for that to be the answer (however this is usually a paradox as, when all else aligns what you're doing isn't BA after all..)nezzuo wrote:as this post seems to be aimed at beginners mostly (but definitely still applies to advanced individuals as well), i'm interpreting the black arts thing as "do not even try to mess with it until you have done this for many many years and have become very advanced.. and still be cautious/have your mind + goals set straight beforehand."
Of course if you want to practice the black arts and deal with legit black arts beings for your path, that's up to you, but it is rather impractical and CH does not as far as I know advocate it under any circumstance. No one who actually has dealt with the black arts would advise a point when you can handle it safely, because there's no such thing as handling BA safely/to your benefit (we want magick and entities to benefit us, yes?) That situation doesn't exist, lol.
Readily one would exhaust every/any other more viable option before going there and one of those options would do the job.
So I am pretty sure they mean, practically never.. there are no goals you can possibly have that aren't achievable by the Dark Arts spectrum. BA is absolutely unnecessary nearly 100% of the time and will 100% of the time be unpleasant or carry an unintended backlash at the very least. Many people simply do not understand what BA really is compared to DA.
Once again, that doesn't mean it's wrong to have that knowledge or experience in some form if you are truly a person meant to have that, but it's not something most people should ever encounter or feel an urge to encounter on their path.
If you get to be advanced to the point suggested, you will not need to deal in BA unless to combat against others' recklessness probably. One may be fascinated by the prospect of Black Arts, until they actually become experienced and realize it has no place other than a dangerous novelty for the uninitiated. At that point the desire to tangle with it reveals itself as ignorance, and true respect of it means growing out of that desire.
Anyone that advanced knows how to do what needs to be done without flinging BA around.. as far as I'm concerned. BA is not 'more powerful' it's just a pure, uncontained force of blackness which resonates with the negative or disruptive at all times.
(This is, of course, going by the definition used here.. and terminology has been a weak spot in the community where people can't make heads or tails of anything, it's important to know how 'Black Arts' is being applied by Magnolia.)
However I am aware there are practitioners who seek to specialize in BA.. once again CH doesn't advocate that so they are advising against this. BA is a removal of will and choice and creates yucky, unintended circumstances for all involved - it isn't all that efficient or practical.
Unless you're spiritually sadomasochistic and want to inflict and receive unimaginable horror at the mercy of/enslavement to a current or an entity who doesn't actually care about your pleasure and would just as readily throw you in front of a truck when it ceases to be nourished by the spectacle.. it isn't something to aspire to.
and cerata, that is just fine! i think it is wonderful you know who you are and what you like, and that you still feel the need to be educated on every possible part of this diverse journey.