Cultural Appropriation & Magick

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I think this is an interesting discussion, and it's something that needs to be discussed from a place of magick, not a place of politics.

If you are a close-minded person who is completely without the ability to have an open discussion & be respectful, don't bother posting. We're not trying to convert people, or shame people, or change their minds. We're here to have a respectful, open discussion so we can all learn.

Since the term "cultural appropriation" became a buzzword in the last decade, it's infiltrated many political spheres and has been used as a tool to drive further division between people, but when it comes to magick, what are your thoughts?

Feel free to pick any or all of the thoughts below:


- Cultures in magick, since we are all cultures of immigrants & immigration, where is ownership decided?

- How do you reconcile people whose past lives in cultures (which may not be the culture they are currently in), wanting to return to past life roots

- With creatures & beings of cultural namesake being a species unto themselves outside of the dominion of a culture, is there any claim to be acknowledged?

- What if you come from multiple cultures in your bloodline, where is your allegiance? Or are you blocked from all because you are mixed?


Bear in mind that from a CH standpoint, we come from a place of worldwide respect and acceptance, and genuinely Universal respect, because we advocate for the much bigger picture of the whole of time, and not snapshots of humanity on Earth. We advocate from a place that the Earth is a teeny speck of dust in the Universe, and therefore we are all citizens of the Universe.

To put our perspective into better perspective for you... this is Milky Way, which is ONLY OUR galaxy, and then we have the blip of a dot within the Milky Way that is where we are.
earth-milky-way-big.jpg
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And the Milky Way is just millions of galaxies in the Universe.
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When we post our thoughts on magick, spirits, entities, etc it comes from a place of knowing that the Universe is vast, and the ownership of magick is not to humanity alone.

In such a small place, with beings who have traversed its soil in search of themselves, of survival, of spirituality, of meaning to life as a whole... it is clear that when we all share wisdom & teachings with each other it advances all of us. No one person, no one culture, no one country is going to unlock the vast mysteries and secrets of the Realms and of the Universe, and if each of us holds a clue (no matter if we live now or we lived 10,000 year ago), then putting those pieces together could unlock a connection with the higher consciousness and mystic ability within us all. When we decide to be divisive and segregate ourselves based on race, gender, religion, etc is when we stifle any hope of evolution for us all in a spiritual/mystical way.

There is no governing religion, belief system, or culture on CH, and we welcome everyone to participate and share their thoughts & ideas, as long as they come from a place of respect for all, and not to shame or admonish people here, or the supernatural in general.

Our mission, from the first day we started online, was to break down the negative stigma around magick & spirits, as well as to make the supernatural accessible to EVERYONE and not make it restricted based on gender, race, religion, etc. It doesn't mean you can jump into master-level ceremonies on your first day, but that we believe you have the right to learn any path of magick you feel is most becoming of your natural talents & connections through ancestry, past life, or current incarnation, and you should not be restricted based on gender, color, race, religion, geographic birthplace, etc.

If you feel like magick or practices should be restricted based on these identifiers, and you want to post regarding this, please do so with respect. We welcome all thoughts & ideas, just please come from a place of kindness and respect for all viewpoints :)
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This is indeed a very interesting discussion, thanks for bringing this up :) . I follow different magickal paths and traditions and I respect and treasure all of their teachings and contributions to my magickal practice. If I came from multiple cultures from my bloodline, I would equally treat each culture with love and respect and will consider each and every one of them a part of me. I will also be always open to their teachings. I believe that magick from different traditions are equally powerful, effective and useful.


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creepyhollows wrote:I think this is an interesting discussion, and it's something that needs to be discussed from a place of magick, not a place of politics.[…]

- Cultures in magick, since we are all cultures of immigrants & immigration, where is ownership decided?
I don't feel like I can claim a right to have access to anybody's restricted spiritual practices - whether that is: a hereditary witchcraft coven; a secret, western magical society; or an indigenous or tribal group. Clearly they have ownership.

I imagine if a spirit (or a living teacher) chooses to contact and teach someone, that is different.


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I respect all cultures and their practices, especially when they say some things are sacred and cant be shared with outsiders.
However, I am not going to turn down my guides and teacher who teach me their cultural ways just because I am of a different bloodline. The choice not to learn would have to come from me, and I am not going to forsake knowledge because it is seen by other humans as inappropriate. This to me borders on racism.
I am also not going to limit myself to my own cultural roots if that is not my calling.
I am familiar with in between life states, including the reasons some of my nearest and dearest incarnated and who they are as souls as well as what they came to learn. I know their soul characteristics, challenges they face and what they want to achieve. Some people have past life memories, I dont have those. I have in-between life memories.
I am aware of the soul connections forged and pathways to be explored can vary greatly from geographic location.
I am also familiar with deities CHOOSING particular individuals to work with rather than the individual deciding which deity works for you. This often follows through lifetimes regardless of culture. It is a very intimate and rigorous relationship. Geographical, cultural and blood associations dont always play a role in that Deities role with you, however they may want you to immerse yourself in THEIR culture. I see this as respect, not taboo.
If you are chosen by a Deity, a tribe or a people you are very lucky - and while it is ultimately your choice as to whether or not you take them up on the offer to learn I personally would not turn down the opportunities that speak to my soul because I am considered an outsider by humans.
I live in a multicultural society where many faiths have come together. Some are more forthcoming than others, and all seem to have levels of initiation. I find that fair.
But what I have the opportunity to learn in spirit and in person by a master is going to take precedence over what a human says I should or should not do.


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For the record I am apprenticed to a Shaman who has been taught by Lakota Native American Spirits her whole life. She has spent COUNTLESS lifetimes as a shaman, building her arsenal of skills and can recall all her previous lifetimes on command if necessary, though it rarely is. I have been accepted into her tribe and learnt immensely powerful lessons from both spirits and people. This includes one of the native Deities who came to me in a healing.
Before that I had guides who were a Buddhist monk and a Hawaiian Shaman who also taught me valuable lessons from both cultures that I still use today.
I have been exposed to many cultures in spirit and in person and embraced all of them and the unique, valuable practices they had to share.
At no point was it considered cultural appropriation by any of them - spirit or human, however spirits tend to have a different view on things. They see you as a soul just learning lessons.


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Exoteric religious belief and practice is wonderful (at least for some of us!) But I believe the occult is open to everyone.

Human perception is always tinted with expectations. We usually see what we expect to see.

I'm sure the medieval churchmen who thought all angels were male never saw a female one, but that's because of their minds and expectations.

But if I'm bound to an angel, and she's female, it's silly to argue she doesn't exist! The historical understanding of some people in some quarters was incomplete.

Certainly, I appreciate those voices who can state the truth about particular entities as believed and transmitted according to their lineages. That is welcome information!

But I think no one should be surprised if I value my personal experiences, or that if I share them on some topic I'm not going to waste a paragraph with caveats and "In-my-'umble-opinions."

The occult does not have a head office to declare "official opinions" we must all bow to. That's one of the wonderful things about it! There is as much room for personal exploration and growth as I'll every need.

I'm an American from the Eastern US. We don't have a rich repertoire of "accurate" legends regarding our "native" entities. For example, freshwater elementals (like Undines or Nixies) are clearly present. But we don't have a received Canon regarding them, at best we have a legendarium including various competing tales. If someone says "Nixies have wings and can fly" I can't say "no, that's impossible." But I can suggest that the creature is more likely to be a fairy, based on the weight of reports. But who knows, maybe a great Nixie King obtained wings through some great feat! (If so, I would love to hear about it.)

Anyway, if someone chooses to identifies their background it can be helpful. A newbie making a "how can I summon a djinn" post will get back different answers if they want one via the western conjuring paradigm vs. for example the Indonesian one.


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creepyhollows wrote:- Cultures in magick, since we are all cultures of immigrants & immigration, where is ownership decided?
If there is a current living culture that still works with sacred rituals, artifacts, or the like as part of their practice of belief, then clearly they still have ownership. While immigration is not controllable (generally), they still have the right to decide who they want to share their culture with, and even what aspects they want to share. They have every right to restrict that as they desire. Who is anyone outside of that culture to say they must share anything or that anything they believe and practice should be shared openly?

But this is a very high level discussion of ownership. Ownership not only belongs to an entire culture, it belongs to each individual of that culture. If an individual makes the decision to share an aspect of their culture, then they have every right to make that decision on their own, as a member of that culture. There may be a taboo about it, sure, but individuals have their own agency and they will do what they will. So this complicates the question because the individual that is more open to another culture and shares their knowledge is as much an owner of their culture as the individual who insists on tradition and not sharing with another culture. In my view, both owners of the culture are valid, as both can make judgements how they see fit regarding their customs.
- How do you reconcile people whose past lives in cultures (which may not be the culture they are currently in), wanting to return to past life roots
This gets a little more difficult, but I think the "how" of reconciliation is up to the ownership discussed above. If the past culture is still in existence and has a clear ownership, then the person wanting to return to past life roots would need to seek out a member of the culture to discuss their desire to go back to learn that culture's ways. This would probably mean seeking a shaman or such who may be able to help discern the individual's past lives and make a wise judgement accordingly.

If they seek spiritual guidance and assistance instead (literally from spirits, deities, or the like), whether because they cannot physically contact such an individual or the culture is no longer in existence, then they have every right to return to that knowledge according to whatever the spirits decide. In my view the spiritual guidance would also provide them ownership, in which case as an individual they would need to determine if they should ever share what they re-learn with others of different cultures. They also might take into consideration the views of their spiritual guides and what they desire. For cultures no longer in existence, especially, the dead often want to be remembered and honored and so they share their wisdom and culture quite freely. Again, though, a generalization should not be made. Some of the dead want nothing to do with sharing their secrets, culturally or otherwise.
- With creatures & beings of cultural namesake being a species unto themselves outside of the dominion of a culture, is there any claim to be acknowledged?
This is an intriguing question. I do believe a conjurer should be careful selling spells, spirits or entities that have intrinsic cultural ownership, especially if the culture that can make that claim is still in existence and would not approve of the conjuration or the ritual or spell workings. This seems doubly a concern if the ownership is from a disadvantaged culture that has decided to also attempt to sell such items themselves, as the question becomes is the conjurer not from the culture making money off of something that they own? I think caution is the only voice I can share on this, as this may be something that can be different from one instance to another. There is no straight and easy way to handle that sort of claim.

Yet, when it comes to the beings and creatures, they also have their own individual agency and as such their own voice. So that, again, complicates matters. While we can say "A conjurer should not do this", is it not, ultimately, the being's choice whether they want to be a part of that individual's life, whether the individual is of their original culture or not? Who are we to argue? And can ownership be established when the creature or being is ascended to spirit? Is the alchemical transformation of death enough to say that the ownership of the culture is no longer valid? I have no answers to those questions, but I do think the being's choice must be considered. After all, half my guides are from cultures I have no ancestry for and nothing to do with, yet they have come to me, so I can't see a physical world restriction being wholly applicable.
- What if you come from multiple cultures in your bloodline, where is your allegiance? Or are you blocked from all because you are mixed?
If you have ever had your ancestry DNA checked, it becomes clearly obvious what cultures that you may have access to by bloodline. I think, no, you are not blocked at all. If you have roots in peoples of Norway, Great Britain, Italy, Scandinavia, and Europe, then you have every right to explore those heritages.

I don't like the argument that mixed blood blocks anyone from anything, as our bloodlines are not pure. There is no one on this Earth with a pure bloodline, and every generation mixes more and more. So I would say the allegiance is the agency of the individual to decide. This might end up causing a conflict with a culture's perception, but again, there are always individuals that would make an exception whether it is considered a taboo or not. In this way it goes back to ownership.

On the whole those are my summarized views to each scope. I don't think anyone's views posted in the previous threads have been necessarily conflicting. Each view - the Universal view and the microcosmic cultural view - has its merits and is correct in its own way. I believe we all have our own paths toward spiritual enlightenment, wherever that leads, and I feel that it is open to every individual to explore however they desire to. Does that mean they should just crush every obstacle in their path and force a cultural exchange? No. It does mean as an individual they have the right to try to find out if it is their calling to do so.


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I have the same approach as a lot of what is being said above.
I feel it is possible for any spirit or entity to approach anyone regardless of their race or ethnicity. There are so many posts floating around online of people belonging directly to a sacred culture saying "These spirits would NEVER want to work with you!" Which I find narrowminded, because that is clearly untrue. Because obviously spirits and entities are not bound by the kind of limitations humans have set between each other. These people haven't interacted with every single spirit/entity from said-culture either and it baffles me when they hivemind the whole thing.

Personally for me though because I am not part of certain sacred cultures and groups, I wouldn't seek it out myself, as I feel I am not entitled to it and not someone who should go out of their way to seek it. Not in my expertise either. I am the same way with labeling myself a "witch" as well.. I don't label myself one for many reasons because it is not my path, but that's just my personal feelings. It would be a different story for me if I were invited or apprenticed, then I feel it is acceptable.

I read a very recently published book in 2018 "Crossroads of Conjure" , the author is a white woman who clearly states she is white and she was formally initiated into Hoodoo. She very respectfully talks about her practice, being welcomed, and so forth. I see no problem with this. I see where she is coming from and she is aware of it herself. This is a perspective I feel a lot of folks do not see.

To add onto this discussion, I knew of a girl back then who grew up in Haitian roots and is Haitian herself, she didn't practice witchcraft or was involved with the metaphysical or anything like that, but she was involved heavily in a lot of social issue circles online, and she often times accused anyone who was Wiccan to be "stealing from Afrolatinx people" and I couldn't quite wrap my mind around it. I didn't even want to get started on her why that statement was wrong and the whole discussion of what Wicca is or how it came about.

I understand the argument though there are a lot of people today who cherrypick what they want from sacred cultures though and that is something I do not find okay especially when it involves capitalization off of it.

I feel a lot of people's problems today is they start getting into modern social justice framework and become very vindictive especially due to being involved in a lot of liberal circles with people who influence how they think about it. It becomes a very black and white way of thinking. I've been in that position before myself and thought I knew it all. If I was still thinking like that then man, I would be disliking a crap ton of conjurers! I can sympathize a lot where people are coming from but there is a broader picture to it. Anyway, to answer one of the questions... I do deeply care for many things but I wouldn't say it is appropriation. It can happen but I just don't see it as the case a lot of the time when you deeply examine things more. The problem with me saying this is those who uphold rigid social justice views, will see this as "problematic" without taking the time to engage.
People can be disrespectful and very capitalizing of cultures though which is something Regholdain mentioned above.


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Well, for me I think of magical "inheritance" (that's my wording for it as I feel it is more appropriate phrasing for the overall questions asked on this post) as a way to test and express different ideas of magic.

In terms of ownership or allegiance etc goes I find that it almost becomes paradoxical in nature. You look your ancestor was "x" and they got their bloodline from their family who got it from... for a while and then the trail of who was the original being or how they were created who started "x" trait, beings etc is unknown to us.

What I'm saying is I find the general question somewhat funny in that no and nothing is really "original" in nature and everyone has learned from someone else over time.

I guess what I'm saying is for me my allegiance in terms of bloodline is to those who would call themselves family and friends to me :).

If a conflict did erupt between any sides of my family I will smack both of them really really HARD until they agree with each other again. J/K

Okay, a real answer to that would be that I would try to learn more of the situation and follow what I feel is right for whatever the situation shows to me.

This is a very interesting topic by the way thank you for that Magnolia.


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The most important thing is that you treat the heritage/traditions/cultural magick with respect. I cannot count the times I’ve seen people utilize others’ heritage to profit while they are being completely racist! There’s one blogger who has repeatedly offended black people yet when she decided to jump on the spiritual wagon; all her courses were based on African heritage! I was once in a group of energetic healing and the likes, most the healing activations and alignment involves Kali, Krishna and many Indians deities. The Indians have repeatedly asked to fact check what the creator of the activations say in her courses as it was all misinformation to no avail.
You can’t profit off of other’s culture and be disrespectful at the same time.
Yet at the same time, I also believe POC have the right to be offended when someone uses their hertiage regardless. Because that’s who they are and that’s their identity. I understand when Indians don’t like the modern forms of yoga because to them yoga is ritual, not spiritual. There are people who tread using other people’s cultural magick respectfully and still get criticized and I totally understand that — being POC myself.
The part of past life has interested me the most; I have a very prominent past life as an Irish Druid and this life is what influences me currently. Yet here I am, not Irish, and certainly not a Druid but the metaphysical comes to me naturally and I do infact want to learn different types of cultural magick which lumps me with those who utilize other culture! It’s indeed a very complicated subject...


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