Shifa wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:15 pm I’ve tried desperately to see things, but I can’t.
In my mind’s eye, I see them as their picture that came with the binding, and then the rest just seems like my imaginative fantasy.

Angelik wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:26 am

Shifa wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:15 pm I’ve tried desperately to see things, but I can’t.
In my mind’s eye, I see them as their picture that came with the binding, and then the rest just seems like my imaginative fantasy.

I know that feeling and it can ruin your experience because you start doubting yourself too much. As that what you think is imagination or fantasy is sometimes the real thing.

What happens to me is that when I am awaken and alert like now and the spirit is near or wants my attention, I will suddenly start receiving emotions, feelings and also images in my mind which were not there before. When that happens I am pretty sure it is not imagination as it is something spontaneously initiated by the spirit not me trying to visualize something. It happens when I am not even connecting with the spirit. So if this kind ever happens to you, maybe you can take that as a comparison to understand the energy of the spirit and differentiate it from when you are trying to imagining.

I think when we just imagine it feels more like a mental effort to visualize. When a inner vision comes it is more a spontaneous process not initiated by us. With time you can start connecting and in the beginning it feels like you are imagining it, but it is not. You will feel the difference, with pure imagination there is no feeling of spirit presence and connection, just you and your thoughts and hopes. At least that is what happens to me. Everybody is different.

Also, I don't want to create more confusion in you, but I think it is honest if I tell you that sometimes if you rely on the spirit pic the conjurer gave you it won't help, because the spirit might want to show himself to you in a different form. And the pic you get is sometimes just an interpretation of the energy of the spirit...so imho it is better to first ask the spirit if that pic is something you should rely on or not. How to ask? You ask for him to give you signs, visions or dreams. I find that short naps are the best for spirit communication, there your mind is not in too deep sleep and you will be able to remember more easily. And it might not come straightaway, it might take days before he comes into your dreams and you remember what you see or hear. So sometimes it is not so easy, but definitely worth trying.

Shifa wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:25 pm I think maybe I don’t have any gifts at all. Is it wrong to use my imagination?

An encounter with the spirits is an encounter with the imagination. Think of kids with imaginary friends; those imaginary friends could be spirits. As adults we’re told to think of the imagination as something for children to use, but what we fail to recognize is the imagination is essential to our identities and our place in the universe, and it is something we use every day. It is also a medium the spirits use to communicate with us (Harpur 2002, Ellwood 2018).

We tend to divide imagination from material reality, but imagination is where the seed for material manifestation is planted, and yet, imagination is also where all things are probable. That strikes me as similar to spirits, especially when you consider that spirits can assume different forms and shapes as needed. When a magician asks a spirit to appear before them in a pleasing form, what they are really asking is for the spirit to connect with us via imagination and pick out a shape that suits and that we can relate to through the lens and limitations of our human awareness. Ted Andrews notes that, “Creative imagination, or imaginative cognition, is the key to opening the doors to true spiritual awareness, energies and beings” (Andrews 1993a P. 34).

When I look at other treatises on working with the spirits, what stands out to me is how imagination is omitted as a necessary element of connecting with spirits. Omitting the imagination causes us to ignore the very nature of spirits, and, I think, contributes to the fundamental misunderstanding of them because so much emphasis is either put on wanting spirits to manifest in a specific way, or in separating them out from the world we live in. If we instead entertain the possibility that the imagination is a necessary part of spirit work, then we can also consider how to use the imagination in that work in order to establish better relationships with the spirits. (Taylor Ellwood)

blezheng wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:25 pm I respect different points of view even though I may not resonate with it. I don't want to think that it's imagination because they can appear both in the 3rd eye and in the physical eyes without putting imaginatory effort at all. They can appear in the physical eyes but it depends on the training of the person and their natural ability. In Taoist Magick we have what we so called Yin eyes and Yang eyes. People with Yin eyes tend to see spirits of the dead easier. It reminded me when my grandpa passed away, I saw him comforting my mom while she was trying to sleep. He was all white and it was creepy because he smiled at me. People with Yang eyes tend to see spirit orb manifestations as well as celestial spirits and Immortals easier. People can have both Yin and Yang eyes, if they are gifted with it, lucky them, if not, they can train it via proper training and cultivation. I don't think it's because of my imagination that they appear to me suddenly like that.

When we study the spirits from a perspective that focuses on connecting with them through a felt, embodied experience, we open ourselves to discovering that the spirits are already with us, in the world around us, and don’t have to be summoned from some mythic otherworldly realm. They are as much a part of this existence as we are. They just show up differently, and when we have to create elaborate rituals to connect with them, it is not because they aren’t here. It’s because we’ve closed ourselves off from them, and so in order to open ourselves to their experience we have to get outside of our heads and into a state of experience that makes us receptive to them. This same receptivity can be cultivated through our senses, through the experience we have with the spirits, and by fully integrating our bodies into the work we do with the spirits.

We treat our bodies as solid objects that we just happen to inhabit, but in fact, your body is a living universe in its own right, full of life that you don’t even realize you need to have in order for your body to live. At the same time, the body is a fine tuned instrument of sensitivity that allows us to sense a myriad of sensations, which unfortunately we tend to block out. If we open ourselves to those sensations, we can discover quite a bit. For instance, you can attune yourself to the energies of the Underworld as well as the energies of the planets and the stars. You can also connect with the spirits through your body because they are already interacting with us on that level. The only reason we don’t recognize that connection is because we’ve closed ourselves off from it.