Bonding with Black Arts spirits

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Ericslexi
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Adrasteia wrote:When will some people realise that a rather lax definition of BA can be negligent? Another manner to distinguish BA from DA is their energy. I doubt that OP and many other people have felt that malicious, sickening and intrusive energy. Okay, great. We now know of an apparent very DA demon that is being called BA. But it's still not wise to openly express this naive view in a forum with people, who have gone mad from BA or very dark DA manipulation.
What is "wise" or "Naive" is a matter of personal opinion. That is what's great about this path. Everyone is capable of doing it their own way. I HAVE felt the oppressive energy of a truly insidious creature. I have seen people go mad because of working with truly insidious magick. And yet, that was their path, so I have no right to tell them that it is wrong or right. I don't know what their soul contract is for this life. Just as no one else knows mine or anyone else's. I appreciate your opinion. But be careful that you don't start assuming that your opinions or feelings should be the way everyone else feels or sees things. No one is above anyone else. No one will be on the exact same path. Again, it is nice to hear all of these different views, but without actually BEING someone else, you will not know what they have or have not experienced, or what they NEED to experience. This has gone very far off of the OP, though. I notice no one is really answering, just arguing about the BA definition....


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Ericslexi
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Alys-RaccoonReadings wrote:
Ericslexi wrote:I personally have a true demon. He is BA.
What is the definition of BA as you are using it here? Describe it, so we all know what you mean?

The root of the confusion is this: Most of the people on this board use "BA" as associated with the definition I set in the quote box earlier on in this thread. As referenced in that post, not all practitioners use that definition. Lilith from LTT certainly doesn't. She uses a different definition. But she makes it clear what her definition means: More dangerous than she is willing to bind for certain clients. That is quite a different definition from our default one here! Further muddying the waters, CH uses both the definition I mention as the default AND one like Lilith's--something along the lines of, "As a generalization, this class of being is too dangerous for us to bind in good conscience for most clients."

Now. Now we get to demons. Which gets even more confusing. Most of us define demons as a diverse class of beings having some broad characteristics in common. We can all argue about what those characteristics are, but that's less the point here. Most of us are using a definition that, for the sake of argument, is slightly along the lines of "dark beings who value free will with whom respect must be earned." I'm not saying that's THE definition. But it's closely enough in the neighborhood of the majority default that I'm using it as an example. OTHER people use different definitions of what constitutes a demon. And in those OTHER definitions, we see some conflation with differing definitions of BA. Some people think "demon" means what I used as my definition of BA. As in, all beings described by that definition are "demons." Others think that "demons" are just "generally too dangerous for most of us to work with."

Do you see how confusing this gets??? Unless someone is either using the majority definition of a word or explicitly defining what the word means, we are all talking past each other. If you say you are eating fruit and you mean a tomato, I'm not picturing a tomato. And I"m not going to understand some of what you say about that tomato until you describe it as a tomato.

That is why it might feel like the conversation is getting heated. The frustration is mounting because some of the people in it realize that there is a difference of definition and are asking for clarification while other people in the conversation are refusing to give them the clarification they need in order to continue to have a meaningful conversation.

If someone who says "BA" does not mean that term as I defined it above, then most of us have no idea what that person really means when they say BA. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong definition, either. I'm saying that we don't understand what you are saying if you are using a different definition without elucidating what that definition is, and then when we ask you to you respond without doing so.

It's a feedback loop of frustration that can only be broken by making your definitions clear. Tell us what you mean, and it breaks. More to the point, OP needs to tell us what they mean or accept that they are going to get this reaction basically every time they say BA. Which, for this OP, at this point, boils down to, "TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN OR WE ARE GOING TO THINK YOU JUST LIKE ATTENTION."
I am not the OP, but I will tell you what it means to me personally! Black arts means willing to do anything and willing to harm others. So, if I asked him to hurt or maim or kill, he would. Would I ask him to do that? Depends, honestly. I have never Asked a spirit to do something that I can magickally do myself. I don't think it is fair to ask them to do something just because I do not want to use my own energy. That being said, I personally would not ask any of my beings to harm someone innocent. That is just not who I am as a person. WOULD he harm someone that I asked him to without reason? Yes. And he says he would be ok with it, and would not feel anything/care. That is what I consider BA. He will do whatever I ask of him, regardless. It may just be that he has different morals. I am not sure. But that is what I consider BA. Willing to do whatever it takes with no fear, no hesitation, no fear of any retaliation.


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Ericslexi wrote:
Adrasteia wrote:When will some people realise that a rather lax definition of BA can be negligent? Another manner to distinguish BA from DA is their energy. I doubt that OP and many other people have felt that malicious, sickening and intrusive energy. Okay, great. We now know of an apparent very DA demon that is being called BA. But it's still not wise to openly express this naive view in a forum with people, who have gone mad from BA or very dark DA manipulation.
What is "wise" or "Naive" is a matter of personal opinion. That is what's great about this path. Everyone is capable of doing it their own way. I HAVE felt the oppressive energy of a truly insidious creature. I have seen people go mad because of working with truly insidious magick. And yet, that was their path, so I have no right to tell them that it is wrong or right. I don't know what their soul contract is for this life. Just as no one else knows mine or anyone else's. I appreciate your opinion. But be careful that you don't start assuming that your opinions or feelings should be the way everyone else feels or sees things. No one is above anyone else. No one will be on the exact same path. Again, it is nice to hear all of these different views, but without actually BEING someone else, you will not know what they have or have not experienced, or what they NEED to experience. This has gone very far off of the OP, though. I notice no one is really answering, just arguing about the BA definition....
I'm not telling anyone what to do or not. But you see there are many threads about people whose life became much worse when they began to dabble in the BA. Magnolia and Ash deal with people like them weekly. This is indeed a serious matter. I think that this debate doesn't make much sense anymore. There was a warning, so now you can go ahead. I'd classify your Demon as DA, since I have a few who think the same way, since they have different ethical codes but that's just my opinion.


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Alys-RaccoonReadings
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Yep, I'd consider that very DA, and not BA. :)

And I know you weren't OP. But folks were interested in hearing your own definition too. :)


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Ericslexi
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Alys-RaccoonReadings wrote:Yep, I'd consider that very DA, and not BA. :)

And I know you weren't OP. But folks were interested in hearing your own definition too. :)
1ht 1ht


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Ericslexi wrote: That is what I consider BA. He will do whatever I ask of him, regardless. It may just be that he has different morals. I am not sure. But that is what I consider BA. Willing to do whatever it takes with no fear, no hesitation, no fear of any retaliation.
And that's the definition of DA. They can choose to do the worst things, if necessary.
But they can choose.
BA doesn't choose, they always WILL do the worst things and never anything good.
At least that's the usual definition here.

But hey, you do you. I'd just suggest keeping away from BA that are not bound by sellers that just offer dangerous beings as BA. Not that you run into someone who sells the real deal.


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It has been a great discussion, but.. tick-tock.. will OP ever respond to this? Lol.


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Noctua wrote:It has been a great discussion, but.. tick-tock.. will OP ever respond to this? Lol.
Depends on whether you count starting another BA-centric thread as a response.


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Eheheheheh.


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1) You need to say it's name correctly. Many old grimoires have mistranslations of their true names. It's up to you to research the BA spirit and find out what some of it's names were in older civilizations. Every spirit has a secret favorite name.
2) draw it's sigil if it has one. This has to be drawn. The energy of drawing goes into the relationship that you will have with it.
3) Give blood to a BA spirit. This is the most appreciated gift for them as the energy is unparalleled for them to feed on. It is also use to make agreements with BA spirits. One drop of blood should do.

If you have any problems finding the specific information on the BA spirit use an Ouija Board that has been blessed in the name of Satan.


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