Bonding with Black Arts spirits

[Alys-RaccoonReadings]

In my view it's a bit like people talking about setting off fireworks on their own. If what they mean by "fireworks" is a sparkler or those little ash snakes or even a roman candle, then probably not too concerning. But if they are setting off the big boys you can only buy in the next state over...it's fair to make sure they are doing it out on the beach instead of in their yard full of trees.

That's why it's important for posters to clarify what they mean when they say "BA." Which, for this thread, is still undetermined.

[Aprophis]

Well, we can just be happy that most of the sellers won't bother with real BA and just sell DA beings under that name.
Otherwise things would have blown over a lot already.
I mean aside from people who don't know what they're binding and have no idea how to weed out the bad things.

[Likes2Read]

If the spirit is BA by the parameters by which Ash has defined BA in multiple posts/threads, “bonding” isn’t going to be a thing. The kind of malice inherent in the spirits he’s referring to will prevent them from wanting anything other than to harm you and those you love at the first available opportunity.

Having gotten that out of the way, if what you’re looking for is the darkest-of-dark DA that doesn’t cross that line into “all malice, all the time” territory, have an in-depth convo with the conjurer. They SHOULD have a policy where they interact with the spirits they conjure, over time, to get a feel for, among other things, whether the spirit is even safe to offer to the general public in the first place. Only after doing that should they list the spirit. If they don’t take this level of precaution when conjuring a potentially dangerous spirit for the public, think twice about patronizing them. During that time, they should be ascertaining the spirit’s preferences and dislikes, and they can pass that info to the keeper.

[Noctua]

To bond with a BA:
First take some scissors and run around the house with them, this is very important. Next, climb a mountain and glide down the other side like it's a slip 'n slide. Finally, dive into a sea of sharks and meditate underwater for one hour. If you make it out alive, you have bonded appropriately, but the BA still won't care so you're SOL.

Or maybe stop asking about 'black arts' and tell us the precise race of the entity so we can provide you with more accurate help.
Otherwise I am just going to troll all of your threads from here on out, and with respect to the rules of this forum I do think that is fair under the circumstances as these threads are going to be a waste of space unless they are entertaining. The educational component of them is even totally overdone, lol.

[Alys-RaccoonReadings]

[shieon]

@OP
You need to respond to people and actually make it clear on what you mean by "BA" because at this point nobody is going to know what in the world you mean so we're either going to assume you are looking for advice on the very-very dark spirits, or you are very inexperienced and not knowing what you're getting into. Or trying to troll others.

...Or you don't even know about the little distinction despite people telling you, since you're mentioning you "know about the dangers of BA" apparently.

Is it just a very dark kind of spirit that is manageable?
Then yeah treat it like a a highly respectable connection. Ask the conjurer. Ask someone who personally has more spirits along this spectrum.

Or is it the kind that is destructive and will have control over you?
Then no, don't even bother.

[Ericslexi]

I personally have a true demon. He is BA. We respect each other and it works! Now, I could understand being wary of the ones where the practitioner warns that they WILL ruin your life, and will probably destroy everything you love (surprisingly, I HAVE seen those). But that is more "Insidious arts" to me, and those would not be purchased lightly. And I do not feel drawn to have any of those at this time. You also would not expect to be able to bond with them at all. But Standard dark/BA can still be very helpful and kind to their keeper. I think maybe the definitions need to be more...defined... lol. But I have noticed that when people see "BA", they immediately freak out, and assume that they are the most insidious beings that have ever been, and that is simply not the case all the time. I want to learn, be aware, and experience. I actually like WA/DA/BA. I have a balance and that is what is best for me! I love all my spirits, and all of them are beneficial for me, and I am beneficial for them as well (at least, I try to be!)

[Noctua]

I think the 'arts' system has been simplified to the point of complication when we just apply it broadly across all species of beings. We end up needing to extrapolate over and over again. It is best to get to know behavioral patterns and nature by race, then further distinguish it by trends, and finally to the individual entity in question. So this means each species has it's own unique spectrum, and subjects are dealt with on case by case basis which will further the range of knowledge shared in this community, and limit repetition.

For instance:

I work with a group of Lamiae, their nature is quite wicked, seductive and manipulative --their 'norm' differs from ours in that certain sacrificial or violent acts of vampirism are part of their earliest traditions.
However, there are elders and there are 'youth' and it is usually the case where the elders hold more to violent traditions that do not align well with human civilization, while the youth are more fluid in what they will engage.
One specific elder, however, is very understanding and respectful of the way we live and doesn't care to interfere with that as long as we don't interfere with her. And one specific youth is a completely mischievous out of control troublemaker. Another middle-aged lamia has drained humans in the past but she doesn't anymore.

^In this example while we see that there are common traits and foundational attributes of the species, there are variables when you look more deeply into it. Suddenly we have a worthwhile discussion.. it's magic!
If we actually discussed beings this way we would be learning about them legitimately, and no matter what someone were to label a being -- 'BA, WA, DA', we would be able to understand what we are getting ourselves into and what to expect in a universally relevant fashion. We've dumbed down the complexity of these existences a little by over-categorizing them.

Compare my above assessment of the lamiae to this:
The group of Lamiae is DA, but some of them really seem BA, only they aren't because they are DA and who knows they may surprise you with darker or lighter behaviors.
One particular lamia should be BA and yet if you don't mess with her she really doesn't care about you, making her more like DA. Another is DA but she is such a pain in the ass to have around unless you are going to keep her entertained, much harder to deal with than that last one. Another used to engage some very BA behavior even though she was always DA but you need to know that you are involving yourself in BA if you have her in your life, regardless.

So does it make more sense to use real descriptive-quality terms to discuss beings, or to just call them '(insert) Arts''?
This scale we are using does not fundamentally exist for these entities, we made it up, so already a lot is lost in translation. It became more of an issue when everyone started to use this in a completely different way, making it entirely meaningless.
Because if some practitioner offers a binding and says it is WA and describes what WA means to them, but you disagree with that interpretation, then why does it even matter in the first place? A system meant to streamline things has just turned into tedium.

With that said, it's pretty clear that if a being is properly described to you, you should be able to then use deductive reasoning to figure out what their nature is like and how to bond with them effectively or if they can be bonded with at all. You should also be developing your senses so that you can discern well for yourself. If you don't have any decent means of divination or direct interpretation of the incorporeal entities you are engaging, you should not be working with them.
This is not to say asking for outside perspective is wrong, but you are the one with that direct link to the individual being and your relationship is entirely unique, so half the time no matter how solid the answers you receive from others are, they will be useless for you.

[Adrasteia]

Well said! 1lo

[Aprophis]

I personally have a true demon. He is BA. We respect each other and it works! Now, I could understand being wary of the ones where the practitioner warns that they WILL ruin your life, and will probably destroy everything you love (surprisingly, I HAVE seen those).

So we have come to the point where the BA that were declared BA because they were so dangerous are now called insidious arts?
Why don't we keep calling them BA and call everything somebody can work with as DA, even if they can be very dark?
Why do people insist calling clearly DA beings, even serial killers and mass murderers are 'just' DA, BA?
Is it the coolness factor?
If I tell you, no matter what the seller told you, that being is DA, why would you not say: Yeah, he doesn't hate me and wants to kill me and torture me, he's got to be DA.

There's a lot of edgelords around, it seems. Terrible enough that I have to use the term edgelord.
"Oh, look at me, I'm so cool and powerful, I work with BA"
I have beings myself that were declared as BA, from several sellers, and I am aware and know they're DA.
Which means I, at least, am able to handle not being one of the 'cool guys' who has a DA misclassified as BA, yay?