Vengeance?

[Amarantha]

Unsure if this is the right place to post this question.. Sorry in advance if it is not..

I'm expecting my first Wraith soon and some other protective DA on the way. My Wraith has already came to me in my dream earlier this week and the next day I received the email he was being shipped. Oddly in my dream I seen a ring in it that was described in the notes section of the email even down to the color. I'm curious to see how close they match up when his vessel gets here.
Anyways I have the house rules up and will go over everything when he gets here.. I see how they are solely focused on vengeance.. My question is what kind of vengeance? Like physical harm? Bad luck? Nightmares? I have gone through a lot of abuse in my life which I won't get into here BUT what IF it happens again? What IF I did need to ask my protective spirits for help.. I wouldn't want anyone seriously hurt but would want them off me and to stay far away from me. So yeah what type of vengeance are we talking about here.. and if it does get so bad you need to ask for help is it immediate help or is it something that will make the abuser pay for it later? Like maybe bad luck and trip down the stairs and break a leg or something..

[Lewk]

Unsure if this is the right place to post this question.. Sorry in advance if it is not..

I'm expecting my first Wraith soon and some other protective DA on the way. My Wraith has already came to me in my dream earlier this week and the next day I received the email he was being shipped. Oddly in my dream I seen a ring in it that was described in the notes section of the email even down to the color. I'm curious to see how close they match up when his vessel gets here.
Anyways I have the house rules up and will go over everything when he gets here.. I see how they are solely focused on vengeance.. My question is what kind of vengeance? Like physical harm? Bad luck? Nightmares? I have gone through a lot of abuse in my life which I won't get into here BUT what IF it happens again? What IF I did need to ask my protective spirits for help.. I wouldn't want anyone seriously hurt but would want them off me and to stay far away from me. So yeah what type of vengeance are we talking about here.. and if it does get so bad you need to ask for help is it immediate help or is it something that will make the abuser pay for it later? Like maybe bad luck and trip down the stairs and break a leg or something..

I hope keepers with experience of wraiths will answer. (I don't have one, although I have a number of justice spirits.)

I hope this info's useful.

The CH encyclopedia entry says "They can act on the Keeper's behalf to right a wrong and provide protection against evil and curses." So this is how vengeance fits in, as I see it: righting wrongs.

https://www.creepyhollows.com/faq/?acti ... ght=wraith

And the issue of causing harm is why house rules are needed when we have Dark Arts spirits. In the house rules recommended by ASH, the last one is this:

" HARM NONE
THIS SHOULD BE A STAPLE FOR ANY HOUSE RULES FOR ANY ONE. YOU DON'T WANT YOUR DA SPIRITS TO ACT ON SOMETHING IN A NEGATIVE WAY"

viewtopic.php?f=129&t=42051

That makes it clear.

Another version is in the CH house rules poster: "Harm none without permission."

https://shop.creepyhollows.com/HOUSE-RU ... ITIES.html

I think some people have customised this rule to be even more specific as to who can and can't be harmed. I think "Harm none" is the simplest rule and probably safest, in terms of shielding the keeper from any karmic consequences of allowing harm.

Even if someone doesn't get 'karma' or thinks it's illogical, can't understand by what mechanism it could actually work, or thinks it doesn't matter unless you believe in it... The fact that some of the most experienced, skilled spirit keeping practitioners and magicians *do* talk about consequences for causing harm should make us pause for thought, in my opinion.

Finally, there appear to be two sides to revenge or vengeance. One is the justice / righting a wrong / 'karmic' payback side - which isn't controversial. There are WA justice spirits, for example. The other side is wanting to cause harm to someone. This is where opinion and personal preference seems to divide...and where the risk of incurring 'karmic payback', for want of a better term, is taken.

So, if you don't want your wraith or other spirits to cause harm, maybe keep that core house rule as it is.

[Lewk]

As to how swift vengeance action is, I think the right answer is probably: it depends on the situation - and a number of factors, which can vary.

[Amarantha]

As to how swift vengeance action is, I think the right answer is probably: it depends on the situation - and a number of factors, which can vary.

Yes thank you so much! lol you are always one to help answer my questions
I do have the poster rules up hanging on my wall. I'm going to stick with those rules for now unless I feel I need to add something more later.

[lolaberry]

Unsure if this is the right place to post this question.. Sorry in advance if it is not..

I'm expecting my first Wraith soon and some other protective DA on the way. My Wraith has already came to me in my dream earlier this week and the next day I received the email he was being shipped. Oddly in my dream I seen a ring in it that was described in the notes section of the email even down to the color. I'm curious to see how close they match up when his vessel gets here.
Anyways I have the house rules up and will go over everything when he gets here.. I see how they are solely focused on vengeance.. My question is what kind of vengeance? Like physical harm? Bad luck? Nightmares? I have gone through a lot of abuse in my life which I won't get into here BUT what IF it happens again? What IF I did need to ask my protective spirits for help.. I wouldn't want anyone seriously hurt but would want them off me and to stay far away from me. So yeah what type of vengeance are we talking about here.. and if it does get so bad you need to ask for help is it immediate help or is it something that will make the abuser pay for it later? Like maybe bad luck and trip down the stairs and break a leg or something..

Hiya, I got my wraith years ago, was my first CH spirit a RA too. OK so mine makes me intimidating to people so they leave me alone, but years ago the main person I wanted protection against actually did fall down the stairs and had a huge bruise. I got told by someone else who had no idea about spirits or me having any, due to fact said person and I stopped talking. I asked my wraith to punish her, I actually saw my wraith as a dark swirl at work a few times. Now I also have a black dragon entity who has actually made someone have a car accident so be careful what you ask for. I feel it is best to stop a person rather than punish and your wraith will do this, but yes they can cause people bad luck, sickness, clumsy accidents but be careful.

[Amarantha]

Unsure if this is the right place to post this question.. Sorry in advance if it is not..

I'm expecting my first Wraith soon and some other protective DA on the way. My Wraith has already came to me in my dream earlier this week and the next day I received the email he was being shipped. Oddly in my dream I seen a ring in it that was described in the notes section of the email even down to the color. I'm curious to see how close they match up when his vessel gets here.
Anyways I have the house rules up and will go over everything when he gets here.. I see how they are solely focused on vengeance.. My question is what kind of vengeance? Like physical harm? Bad luck? Nightmares? I have gone through a lot of abuse in my life which I won't get into here BUT what IF it happens again? What IF I did need to ask my protective spirits for help.. I wouldn't want anyone seriously hurt but would want them off me and to stay far away from me. So yeah what type of vengeance are we talking about here.. and if it does get so bad you need to ask for help is it immediate help or is it something that will make the abuser pay for it later? Like maybe bad luck and trip down the stairs and break a leg or something..

Hiya, I got my wraith years ago, was my first CH spirit a RA too. OK so mine makes me intimidating to people so they leave me alone, but years ago the main person I wanted protection against actually did fall down the stairs and had a huge bruise. I got told by someone else who had no idea about spirits or me having any, due to fact said person and I stopped talking. I asked my wraith to punish her, I actually saw my wraith as a dark swirl at work a few times. Now I also have a black dragon entity who has actually made someone have a car accident so be careful what you ask for. I feel it is best to stop a person rather than punish and your wraith will do this, but yes they can cause people bad luck, sickness, clumsy accidents but be careful.

Thank you so much!! So basically just be careful of how you word things when asking for help.. I have had many times where I was in fear for my life and although I am out of those situations now I cant help but to think what if something like that happens again.. I know that in that very moment when your so scared you cant think of wording things properly and in that moment you also don't care what happens to the person hurting you all you can think is please help make them stop.

[lolaberry]

I'm sorry you had these situations, remember they are behind you now. You must not fear they can happen again, yes it's hard not too, but you don't want to attract that energy. You will be safe now and can move forward but look to a happy positive future, your past, as hard as it may be let it all go, maybe look into a spirit that can help you heal too

[cairngorn]

House rules are good, especially having them ahead of time and knowing them very well so you can remember even when you're upset. "Action must be proportional to the offense and take into account whether it was intentional or not" is another rule you might want to consider.

According to people on this forum, it seems like wraiths can help stop people from doing things. Maybe someone robbing your house and getting a debilitating headache while they do it. They might protect an area by running cold fingers down trespassers necks. I'd say this kind of thing is much better than the usual magickal revenge. (For one thing, the target might never know it was you or why it happened and it won't make them stop being awful.)

[Amarantha]

House rules are good, especially having them ahead of time and knowing them very well so you can remember even when you're upset. "Action must be proportional to the offense and take into account whether it was intentional or not" is another rule you might want to consider.

According to people on this forum, it seems like wraiths can help stop people from doing things. Maybe someone robbing your house and getting a debilitating headache while they do it. They might protect an area by running cold fingers down trespassers necks. I'd say this kind of thing is much better than the usual magickal revenge. (For one thing, the target might never know it was you or why it happened and it won't make them stop being awful.)

I seen this thing about this one girl whos ex was beating her and Gusion (one of the goetic demons) pulled him off her.. Thats why I was kinda wondering if you ask for help in a serious situation can a wraith help immediately or just make the person pay later.. But I definitely like the idea of just preventing it from happening all together. Like lolaberry mentioned her wraith can make her intimidating to people then they dont mess with you.

[Lewk]

[...]
I seen this thing about this one girl whos ex was beating her and Gusion (one of the goetic demons) pulled him off her.. Thats why I was kinda wondering if you ask for help in a serious situation can a wraith help immediately or just make the person pay later.. But I definitely like the idea of just preventing it from happening all together. Like lolaberry mentioned her wraith can make her intimidating to people then they dont mess with you.

You may already know what's in this article but it gives a very good, realistic perspective on the limitations of protection spirits.

https://www.creepyhollows.com/faq/index ... hlight=pro

Within those limitations, Volkhs are good overall bodyguard types.

Yes, protection spirits absolutely do help. One post I like that I remember from a forum member gave the example of having a sentient servitor guarding their vehicle and being in a crash. Instead of saying 'that was a failure, why did I have a crash?', you could look at it like 'wow, that was so nearly fatal, but I didn't even get injured, the damage was light and the other person even offered to pay for it'. ...Which I think was what actually happened to them.

There have been a few posts along those lines, as I recall.

It all feeds into the idea that our bound spirits cannot make our life perfect, but if we let them help us and work with them on that, they can change it so much for the better. There was a CH article on that point but I can't find it.