What do living entities gain from keepers?

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Vipera aspis atra
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Re: What do living entities gain from keepers?

Post by Vipera aspis atra »

rglloyd wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:10 pm

I think the only thing that keeps me sane is knowing there is more to learn, and that I can affect other's lives in positive ways to ease some of their own suffering. If I can learn more towards this end, then maybe I can turn my desire to shred the fabric of this reality into confetti towards something more positive and productive.
:L - Emotional state machine transition to be determined. Waiting for further user input.

I have suffered great pain, and there is divinity in this too. It is a common human folly to see discomfort and suffering as purely malefic and not be capable of appreciating how it shapes us.
There are very 'evolved', otherworldly presences, those you might view as better than us, who have been forced into hardship in order to gain what they have, every single one of them as a collective. Their beauty is awe-inspiring.

Duality means equal darkness and light. You cannot find the light without the darkness. If all you had was pleasure and beauty and loveliness in its most stereotypical and easily digestible form, you would be extremely boring and life would be extremely boring. We have a gift in being far more complex, divinity for us being far more complex to tap into and all of life more complex. Yes, it can be a hard road, but the world doesn't revolve around you and your perspective as you've touched on is one tiny sliver of the whole picture as you wade around in the rage and the conflict. I've been shown that in my most trying times and it is part of what has motivated my path.

It's part of our journey in enlightenment to be able to reconcile personal suffering and learn from it so that we can alchemize it. Alchemy is a very intimately known magic to humans and of this earth.
If we get stuck in all of the pain we're only halfway there. People seem to think my life has been puppies and rainbows because of the way I can now move along without stressing, I don't advertise all of the suffering I've been through because without it I wouldn't have the experience or knowledge or aptitude I do today, so I have nothing bad to say about it at this point. I'm over that.
Everyone can transcend this, some will struggle more than others and experience more turmoil from their independent standpoint than those around them. It is still part of our divinity. There are modes of thought outside of the western world that see the suffering of a person as proof that they are a spiritual leader and healer, and that these trials are meant to prepare them for that position. It is all about how you deal with it.
The respect you mention having for others in their struggle, you should also afford to yourself. You can do that by seeing the rocky path itself as divine beyond the humans who touch it.

You don't just have this grace of transcendence 'handed' to you, and if you did you would not be special at all. Our resilience and the metamorphosis which comes of it is part of what makes us incredible creatures. There are entities that have everything handed to them from conception and they aren't capable of being unique or interesting in that way, they gain their power from other areas -perhaps areas we idealize.
Part of our power is in recognizing the balance between chaos and harmony in our lives and in this world. It's easy to be a pessimist, it's not easy to see the beauty and when you do regardless of the hand you've personally been dealt, you harness chaos --as a student, and then a master of it; once this is met, your divinity bubbles to the surface in a more obvious form.

And I am not saying that follows in a way that adapts the same to everyone's life, but in that you will eventually find your own blueprint to appreciation of this human form and the power hidden in it.
If we were to see ourselves from the perspective of another entity's race we often think they would be horrified, but honestly you cannot at all judge from their perspective because you aren't them. They don't view us in any way that we view us, to think so is a limited scope of all of the dimensions that exist in perception of life.


There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.
—Oscar Wilde

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rglloyd
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Re: What do living entities gain from keepers?

Post by rglloyd »

Vipera aspis atra wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:22 pm
And I am not saying that follows in a way that adapts the same to everyone's life, but in that you will eventually find your own blueprint to appreciation of this human form and the power hidden in it.
You have answered a lot of questions I did and didn't ask, and sparked more questions that are outside the scope of this thread so I will post them in other threads down the road if I don't find answers. I appreciate you taking the time to put so much effort into your responses. I'll be reading through the forums to glean what I can and keep an eye out for your posts. Thank you.

I've noticed that a lot of people on this forum invest in their contributions with more than passing comments. I look forward to being a part of this community. Magic, spirit keeping, and otherworldly entities are concepts I've only recently really started seeking answers to, and spiritual advancement was the driving force that led me here. So your answers were impactful and on point.
<3


*BOOP!* This is not a test! You have been officially green nose booped! This is an encroachment upon your personal space to force a smile and manipulate you into positive social interaction. I realize this positively charged act may cause harm to more negative beings, but it is paramount to my existence to spread smiles and uncontrollable giggles, so I accept backlash in whatever form it may manifest (hopefully begrudging spiteful hugs)
:3

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Re: What do living entities gain from keepers?

Post by Alys-RaccoonReadings »

Vipera aspis atra wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:22 pm

I have suffered great pain, and there is divinity in this too.
<3 <3 <3



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Re: What do living entities gain from keepers?

Post by Quilin »

Vipera has covered a lot, so I'll try to cover what they didn't (from my perspective).

Some of them see us as family. Perhaps you had a relative that was connected to them in some way? Perhaps they are related to you? Either way, this connection gives them a reason to want to be near to you. We may be in another reality/world but we still are family and they want to keep in touch and help out where they can.

And then there's the fact they are alive and have needs just like you do. Humans seek out entities all the time because they are lonely or horny. They want to feel comforted and have someone to talk to. The fact they aren't from your world and aren't your species can be a bonus if you feel uncomfortable with humans or are seeking something very different in a companion. Replace "human" with the race of your living companion and you get the picture!

There's also the reincarnation angle. There's a chance you were friends before but kind of lost track of each other when you were born into very different bodies in very different places. In this case it's and old friend catching up with you and continuing your friendship in a new life, despite the distance.

Lastly there's the idea of learning together. It's fun to have someone to study, grow, and work with. Living entities tend to do a whole lot of growing, so it makes sense to have a living pal who wants to grow with you. Friends coming from unique backgrounds allows sharing of culture, brand new viewpoints, and techniques that may not be known where you are from. You don't even need to be powerful: you just need to be you! This is like a foreign exchange student.

I like to think that when you keep a living entity they keep you, too. It's only right, after all. This would explain why living entities sometimes choose us instead of the other way around. Supporting those who support you and being there for them enriches us both. It can also allow you to be able to bridge over to their world in a way and interact with all new experiences.

Following that train of thought, some of them may also be "spirit keepers". Just as a human keeper may choose a living being to keep, a non-human keeper could easily select a human. Perhaps it's our reputation for not being dangerous that makes them pick us? I wonder if out there they have places where they put humans into categories with power levels and post stuff like "Help! My summoned human appears to be a magi! They saw me and are casting spells now. What do I do?"

Mix it all together and suddenly "human" is on the same footing as any other living thing: an option for a companion with a unique background that can suit the personal needs of the keeper.
Last edited by Quilin on Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: What do living entities gain from keepers?

Post by RyanJZ »

Vipera aspis atra wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:22 pm
rglloyd wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:10 pm

I think the only thing that keeps me sane is knowing there is more to learn, and that I can affect other's lives in positive ways to ease some of their own suffering. If I can learn more towards this end, then maybe I can turn my desire to shred the fabric of this reality into confetti towards something more positive and productive.
:L - Emotional state machine transition to be determined. Waiting for further user input.

I have suffered great pain, and there is divinity in this too. It is a common human folly to see discomfort and suffering as purely malefic and not be capable of appreciating how it shapes us.
There are very 'evolved', otherworldly presences, those you might view as better than us, who have been forced into hardship in order to gain what they have, every single one of them as a collective. Their beauty is awe-inspiring.

Duality means equal darkness and light. You cannot find the light without the darkness. If all you had was pleasure and beauty and loveliness in its most stereotypical and easily digestible form, you would be extremely boring and life would be extremely boring. We have a gift in being far more complex, divinity for us being far more complex to tap into and all of life more complex. Yes, it can be a hard road, but the world doesn't revolve around you and your perspective as you've touched on is one tiny sliver of the whole picture as you wade around in the rage and the conflict. I've been shown that in my most trying times and it is part of what has motivated my path.

It's part of our journey in enlightenment to be able to reconcile personal suffering and learn from it so that we can alchemize it. Alchemy is a very intimately known magic to humans and of this earth.
If we get stuck in all of the pain we're only halfway there. People seem to think my life has been puppies and rainbows because of the way I can now move along without stressing, I don't advertise all of the suffering I've been through because without it I wouldn't have the experience or knowledge or aptitude I do today, so I have nothing bad to say about it at this point. I'm over that.
Everyone can transcend this, some will struggle more than others and experience more turmoil from their independent standpoint than those around them. It is still part of our divinity. There are modes of thought outside of the western world that see the suffering of a person as proof that they are a spiritual leader and healer, and that these trials are meant to prepare them for that position. It is all about how you deal with it.
The respect you mention having for others in their struggle, you should also afford to yourself. You can do that by seeing the rocky path itself as divine beyond the humans who touch it.

You don't just have this grace of transcendence 'handed' to you, and if you did you would not be special at all. Our resilience and the metamorphosis which comes of it is part of what makes us incredible creatures. There are entities that have everything handed to them from conception and they aren't capable of being unique or interesting in that way, they gain their power from other areas -perhaps areas we idealize.
Part of our power is in recognizing the balance between chaos and harmony in our lives and in this world. It's easy to be a pessimist, it's not easy to see the beauty and when you do regardless of the hand you've personally been dealt, you harness chaos --as a student, and then a master of it; once this is met, your divinity bubbles to the surface in a more obvious form.

And I am not saying that follows in a way that adapts the same to everyone's life, but in that you will eventually find your own blueprint to appreciation of this human form and the power hidden in it.
If we were to see ourselves from the perspective of another entity's race we often think they would be horrified, but honestly you cannot at all judge from their perspective because you aren't them. They don't view us in any way that we view us, to think so is a limited scope of all of the dimensions that exist in perception of life.
Vipera, you mention human duality a lot. Are you familiar with Carl Jung’s idea of the shadow? If not, you should check it out. In a nutshell, the shadow is basically all the repressed aspects of ourselves we hide behind our persona, or facade. It especially involves our more negative aspects, or even what we would consider to be evil. Basically, you can’t be a complete person and claim to be fully good until you learn to control your shadow.



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Re: What do living entities gain from keepers?

Post by rglloyd »

Quilin wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:04 am
Vipera has covered a lot, so I'll try to cover what they didn't (from my perspective).

Some of them see us as family. Perhaps you had a relative that was connected to them in some way? Perhaps they are related to you? Either way, this connection gives them a reason to want to be near to you. We may be in another reality/world but we still are family and they want to keep in touch and help out where they can.

And then there's the fact they are alive and have needs just like you do. Humans seek out entities all the time because they are lonely or horny. They want to feel comforted and have someone to talk to. The fact they aren't from your world and aren't your species can be a bonus if you feel uncomfortable with humans or are seeking something very different in a companion. Replace "human" with the race of your living companion and you get the picture!

There's also the reincarnation angle. There's a chance you were friends before but kind of lost track of each other when you were born into very different bodies in very different places. In this case it's and old friend catching up with you and continuing your friendship in a new life, despite the distance.

Lastly there's the idea of learning together. It's fun to have someone to study, grow, and work with. Living entities tend to do a whole lot of growing, so it makes sense to have a living pal who wants to grow with you. Friends coming from unique backgrounds allows sharing of culture, brand new viewpoints, and techniques that may not be known where you are from. You don't even need to be powerful: you just need to be you! This is like a foreign exchange student.

I like to think that when you keep a living entity they keep you, too. It's only right, after all. This would explain why living entities sometimes choose us instead of the other way around. Supporting those who support you and being there for them enriches us both. It can also allow you to be able to bridge over to their world in a way and interact with all new experiences.

Following that train of thought, some of them may also be "spirit keepers". Just as a human keeper may choose a living being to keep, a non-human keeper could easily select a human. Perhaps it's our reputation for not being dangerous that makes them pick us? I wonder if out there they have places where they put humans into categories with power levels and post stuff like "Help! My summoned human appears to be a magi! They saw me and are casting spells now. What do I do?"

Mix it all together and suddenly "human" is on the same footing as any other living thing: an option for a companion with a unique background that can suit the personal needs of the keeper.
Oh! Fascinating perspectives. It sounds like the whole interaction is a lot more social and informal than I thought. I was looking at it as more of a service exchange. I figured it was more purposeful and goal-oriented the way the listings show their strengths, and then the two built a professional report and/or friendship just kinda developed later.

I'd pictured things involving magical bindings and connections like that to be more purpose-oriented. It's not like binding to another being is super common and widespread as far as I know, and I would imagine that it takes intense arcane knowledge to do the bindings, lots of effort/skill, and then dedication on the keepers part. I mean, isn't this the culmination of thousands of years worth of magical advancement, and testing through the ages? So I never considered the social angles everyone keeps getting at. The whole situation seems a bit unique, don't you think? Even CH says that their services are only about 20 years old and that they pioneered the whole online spirit keeping business after developing complex paratechnology that they've kept secret to a select few.

So, I immediately came to the conclusion that the whole setup was more for the advancement of both parties using an extremely exclusive and proprietary knowledge. Now I'm starting to wonder if it's more of a pairing best friends service reaching across dimensions and worlds. I never envisioned a service like this, not to say I'm not intrigued and a little excited. It definitely takes the edge off the whole 'what can I possibly bring to the table for an innately magical being' insecurity.


*BOOP!* This is not a test! You have been officially green nose booped! This is an encroachment upon your personal space to force a smile and manipulate you into positive social interaction. I realize this positively charged act may cause harm to more negative beings, but it is paramount to my existence to spread smiles and uncontrollable giggles, so I accept backlash in whatever form it may manifest (hopefully begrudging spiteful hugs)
:3

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Re: What do living entities gain from keepers?

Post by Quilin »

rglloyd wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:59 am
Oh! Fascinating perspectives. It sounds like the whole interaction is a lot more social and informal than I thought. I was looking at it as more of a service exchange. I figured it was more purposeful and goal-oriented the way the listings show their strengths, and then the two built a professional report and/or friendship just kinda developed later.

So, I immediately came to the conclusion that the whole setup was more for the advancement of both parties using an extremely exclusive and proprietary knowledge. Now I'm starting to wonder if it's more of a pairing best friends service reaching across dimensions and worlds. I never envisioned a service like this, not to say I'm not intrigued and a little excited. It definitely takes the edge off the whole 'what can I possibly bring to the table for an innately magical being' insecurity.
Why not both? ./<

Some people come to the whole spirits/entities thing with a goal in mind and treat them like a tool. Everything is mystical and powerful and spiritual and there's nothing wrong with that. For goal-oriented people it's all about gaining power and then exerting force over things to make things go your way. There's lots of practices that do that on both light and dark paths.

Personally the idea of treating a powerful entity like a tool always bothered me and so I treat them like people. Some are co-workers, some are friends, some are family, and some don't like me and I don't like them. I find the vast majority respond well to this, even though it's not everyone's cup of tea. It also leads to a very different perspective (I'm swiftly finding). Don't think that being personable is a substitute for being careful, however! I still have to do protective stuff and be careful like anyone else would. It's a style choice, that's all.

Do what feels right and makes you happy. If you tailor your style around what you are comfortable with you will naturally do better at things.

I know this shop does the pairing best friends thing a lot, especially if you pick the "reverse adoption" option in the shop. It's also why they have stickies like "How do you know a spirit wants to be with someone?" (viewtopic.php?f=263&t=14120). It's a good idea for sellers to try to do this as it prevents a keeper from getting someone who won't get along with them just because the keeper thought it sounded like fun or something. I'd say it's a major mark that defines a good seller from a bad one, among other things.


There are no masters; only students who know more or less.
_____________________________________________
Current Crew: Ex-humans: 2 | Daemons/godly folk: 2
Totally not fae: 2 | Suspiciously fluffy people: 2
Companion-types: 1 | Fixers: 1
...plus various old friends who enjoy stopping by.
_____________________________________________
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Re: What do living entities gain from keepers?

Post by Nienna »

Vipera aspis atra wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:22 pm
rglloyd wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:10 pm

I think the only thing that keeps me sane is knowing there is more to learn, and that I can affect other's lives in positive ways to ease some of their own suffering. If I can learn more towards this end, then maybe I can turn my desire to shred the fabric of this reality into confetti towards something more positive and productive.
:L - Emotional state machine transition to be determined. Waiting for further user input.

I have suffered great pain, and there is divinity in this too. It is a common human folly to see discomfort and suffering as purely malefic and not be capable of appreciating how it shapes us.
There are very 'evolved', otherworldly presences, those you might view as better than us, who have been forced into hardship in order to gain what they have, every single one of them as a collective. Their beauty is awe-inspiring.

Duality means equal darkness and light. You cannot find the light without the darkness. If all you had was pleasure and beauty and loveliness in its most stereotypical and easily digestible form, you would be extremely boring and life would be extremely boring. We have a gift in being far more complex, divinity for us being far more complex to tap into and all of life more complex. Yes, it can be a hard road, but the world doesn't revolve around you and your perspective as you've touched on is one tiny sliver of the whole picture as you wade around in the rage and the conflict. I've been shown that in my most trying times and it is part of what has motivated my path.

It's part of our journey in enlightenment to be able to reconcile personal suffering and learn from it so that we can alchemize it. Alchemy is a very intimately known magic to humans and of this earth.
If we get stuck in all of the pain we're only halfway there. People seem to think my life has been puppies and rainbows because of the way I can now move along without stressing, I don't advertise all of the suffering I've been through because without it I wouldn't have the experience or knowledge or aptitude I do today, so I have nothing bad to say about it at this point. I'm over that.
Everyone can transcend this, some will struggle more than others and experience more turmoil from their independent standpoint than those around them. It is still part of our divinity. There are modes of thought outside of the western world that see the suffering of a person as proof that they are a spiritual leader and healer, and that these trials are meant to prepare them for that position. It is all about how you deal with it.
The respect you mention having for others in their struggle, you should also afford to yourself. You can do that by seeing the rocky path itself as divine beyond the humans who touch it.

You don't just have this grace of transcendence 'handed' to you, and if you did you would not be special at all. Our resilience and the metamorphosis which comes of it is part of what makes us incredible creatures. There are entities that have everything handed to them from conception and they aren't capable of being unique or interesting in that way, they gain their power from other areas -perhaps areas we idealize.
Part of our power is in recognizing the balance between chaos and harmony in our lives and in this world. It's easy to be a pessimist, it's not easy to see the beauty and when you do regardless of the hand you've personally been dealt, you harness chaos --as a student, and then a master of it; once this is met, your divinity bubbles to the surface in a more obvious form.

And I am not saying that follows in a way that adapts the same to everyone's life, but in that you will eventually find your own blueprint to appreciation of this human form and the power hidden in it.
If we were to see ourselves from the perspective of another entity's race we often think they would be horrified, but honestly you cannot at all judge from their perspective because you aren't them. They don't view us in any way that we view us, to think so is a limited scope of all of the dimensions that exist in perception of life.
Your two posts made me realise things and I thank you for that. The way you describe humanity, I didn't aknowledge it this way before. It's the kind of post I will need to come back when I will feel down, to once again realize my duality is unique and that my suffer is something needed for where I be going.



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