Struggling with visualization

[cairngorn]

Hey, to avoid hijacking the Aphantasia thread in Spirit Keeping, I'm posting a new thread.

I always have a really rough time holding visualizations. My dreams are generally chaotic, for one. For another example, if you ask me to visualize a red star, I can do that, but having to imagine the process of coloring it in...nope. It morphs into an orange rectangle or something and then it's a train tunnel and I'm traveling by train and then *look at the countryside and all the flowers* and then I get random images of stones or something and I'm not even close to following the mediation or accomplishing whatever it was I wanted to accomplish.

I've never been able to create a working space in the astral because I can't decide what place would feel right and I struggle to hold any image there at all.

I guess the answer is "meditate more and learn 2 concentrate." But has anyone else dealt with this?

[Lewk]

Hey, to avoid hijacking the Aphantasia thread in Spirit Keeping, I'm posting a new thread.

I always have a really rough time holding visualizations. My dreams are generally chaotic, for one. For another example, if you ask me to visualize a red star, I can do that, but having to imagine the process of coloring it in...nope. It morphs into an orange rectangle or something and then it's a train tunnel and I'm traveling by train and then *look at the countryside and all the flowers* and then I get random images of stones or something and I'm not even close to following the mediation or accomplishing whatever it was I wanted to accomplish.

I've never been able to create a working space in the astral because I can't decide what place would feel right and I struggle to hold any image there at all.

I guess the answer is "meditate more and learn 2 concentrate." But has anyone else dealt with this?

Not exactly that. Except my dreams can be like that too. I think most people's are to some extent. And our waking minds can have those feverish-type wandering thought impressions.

But I have practiced different types of visualisation-related exercises over the decades. I like to think there is more than one aspect to visualisation and more than one way of going about it. In case any of it helps, here are a few thoughts.

A modern taoist I knew said: "If I asked you to visualise a line of 10 pink hippos, wearing tutus, dancing across the ceiling...are you really telling me you didn't see that in your mind's eye?" On one level, visualisation is simple, automatic and not a big thing. You just let yourself do it. Your subconscious - and some would say your higher self - easily figures out what to do with it. Another way of saying this is our mind/body system responds to things we think in an autonomous way. Nature plays a part . We don't do all of it ourselves.

I'm tempted to say if we can dream we can visualise.

Another aspect to visualisation might be to hold an image in mind. There are ways to practice this. It sounds like what you're talking about is your free-flowing stream of consciousness. There's nothing wrong with having that. We all have it. One way to learn to exercise some 'control' is to do it in 3 stages. (This is a very shortened summary of Franz Bardon's thought control steps in Initiation Into Hermetics.)

For 1 week, do a daily exercise where for 5 minutes you simply try to observe and follow your stream of thoughts. For the next week, for that 5 minutes you simply try to hold one single thought for those 5 minutes. In the third week, you vigorously resist any thoughts that arise, looking for that intermission of no-thought. (Actually, I think you can carry on after 7 days until you've achieved success in the full 5 minutes. Of course, do this in a quiet setting with no interruptions. Sitting upright on a straight back chair is a recommended posture.)

A third way to hone concentration is to get a sheet of card or paper. Mark a visible dot at its centre with a pen. Place it at eye level around 5-6 feet away. (If you're sitting on the floor, this is not at the same level as if sitting on a chair.) For 5 minutes stare at the dot and try not to look away. Keep your vision on the dot. Do this daily for a week.

The benefit of doing these exercises is that your mind/body system gradually learns the habit of doing it. We all start off not being able to do these kind of exercises. But through the act of going through the motions we gradually train our mind/body system to learn this new skill or habit.

[cairngorn]

Thank you for the exercise, these sound very practical.

I can absolutely see images in my mind. It's far more difficult to hold them or follow any predetermined procedure with them.

[Muse]

I always have a really rough time holding visualizations. My dreams are generally chaotic, for one. For another example, if you ask me to visualize a red star, I can do that, but having to imagine the process of coloring it in...nope. It morphs into an orange rectangle or something and then it's a train tunnel and I'm traveling by train and then *look at the countryside and all the flowers* and then I get random images of stones or something and I'm not even close to following the mediation or accomplishing whatever it was I wanted to accomplish.

I don't know how "normal" this is considered, but this is exactly how I visualize things. Occasionally, with practice, I can be more focused but I often have to "repeat a scene" or get a handle on what I'm trying to visualize. I think that in time it gets slightly easier, but often it will be a chaotic mess for some people. Especially if, like me, you struggle with ADHD or other disorders that cause a disruption in thought process. I had a mentor who was buddhist for a short amount of time, and when learning to meditate with him, he told me that it was okay if thoughts were chaotic; going with the flow and letting them pass was much better than fighting with things. So long as you eventually got on track, even for a bit, that was what mattered. Paths differ and get wavy sometimes, even in our minds, and it's okay to go off the beaten path. It's all part of the experience.

If you MUST focus on one thing, you can always try the breathing method; count your breaths and stare at one point in the room for a bit, and then go back to visualization. Clearing the mind beforehand can help the visual process be a bit less cluttered.

[cairngorn]

Sometimes I try to visualize a meeting place and the construct is flat, like a photograph. If I try to move within it, it changes to something else entirely.

Accepting that starting over happens sometimes is a good idea I think, Muse.

[PrincessKnight]

Although I am rather good at visualizing, I haven't learned how to meditate yet, because whenever I try to focus on my breath, my anxiety increases and so I have to stop meditating immediately! I probably am the only person who finds meditation stressful.

[Kobald]

Well.... maybe this technique is not the right one for you? I am no expert on this, so this is just a feeling^^
When I meditate, or try it, I more or less focus on the silence around me, or I talk to me in a prayerlike fashion to guide my mind in the right direction. The last one helps me immensly to calm down, but it surely depends on WHAT words you choose to guide you

I also learned, that it is important not to force it an let the mind flow at first. But I get the feeling you already know this

[Nathayra]

I think I have a similar problem - I can have detailed graphic dreams with consistend detailed landscape and objects, that are 'steady' during the whole dream but during meditations holding shape, color etc. is very difficult and just slip away.
For me, during meditations, I can only do it with "familiar" objects, where I also have an connection to a memory or emotion. So, I usually start with the 'essence' of the object, like 'that picture over the TV at my grandpa' and can then go in and imagine every detail. With locations, I do the same. When, during guided meditations, they ask to envision for example a garden, I pick a garden I have been to and alter it slightly in my mind. To construct something new, object or landscape, I just don't seem to care or connect enough.

[cairngorn]

Although I am rather good at visualizing, I haven't learned how to meditate yet, because whenever I try to focus on my breath, my anxiety increases and so I have to stop meditating immediately! I probably am the only person who finds meditation stressful.

If I focus on my breath in a "breathe in, breathe out" sort of way then I end up stressed and hyperventilating a lot. It's hard with guided meditations because they usually suggest breathing either slower or faster than is comfortable for me. Instead I focus on breath in general.

I don't think most people are perfect at mediation. Practice is good though.

[cairngorn]

I think I have a similar problem - I can have detailed graphic dreams with consistend detailed landscape and objects, that are 'steady' during the whole dream but during meditations holding shape, color etc. is very difficult and just slip away.
For me, during meditations, I can only do it with "familiar" objects, where I also have an connection to a memory or emotion. So, I usually start with the 'essence' of the object, like 'that picture over the TV at my grandpa' and can then go in and imagine every detail. With locations, I do the same. When, during guided meditations, they ask to envision for example a garden, I pick a garden I have been to and alter it slightly in my mind. To construct something new, object or landscape, I just don't seem to care or connect enough.

That's a good approach. My own dreams are just as chaotic as my visualizations, maybe moreso.

Interesting you go with familiar things. Maybe some of my visualization places originate from pictures. That would make moving around in them and seeing from different angles difficult.