Hello All!

I've been trying to figure out how to properly visualize, and get reliably consistent vivid visualizations on command. Most notably I've been doing the Candle Visualization. Where you stare at a flame for a bit, close your eyes and try to recreate the flame on the black background. When I started several months ago, I could see the after image, which was blue instead of white/yellow/orange. So I worked to make it last longer and longer. I can now make it last a couple minutes. However, It's blue, and still only an after image burned into my retina. How do I make a transition into actually imagining the image, or creating it with eyes closed?

Sometimes when I meditate, very rarely, I will see images flash in my sight/mind's eye. Hard to tell. But it looks like a slideshow. Very vivid, so I know I CAN do it. I just do not know how. As it happens without warning, and without pattern, I can't recreate it. I started this whole endeavor after reading NeoStarFire's "Visualization Exercises" post614549.html#p614549

But I cannot manage anything close to exercise one from the article, at least not on command. Also another note, when I try to visualize anything, I KNOW it's there, but I can't see it. It's like the thick black fog/darkness is blocking my visualization. Is there a specific chakra I should work with to unblock? I'm just not really sure what I should work on at this point.

Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences, hopefully I can learn something!
Thanks for your help.

mrcampncarl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:59 pm Hello All!

I've been trying to figure out how to properly visualize, and get reliably consistent vivid visualizations on command. Most notably I've been doing the Candle Visualization. Where you stare at a flame for a bit, close your eyes and try to recreate the flame on the black background. When I started several months ago, I could see the after image, which was blue instead of white/yellow/orange. So I worked to make it last longer and longer. I can now make it last a couple minutes. However, It's blue, and still only an after image burned into my retina. How do I make a transition into actually imagining the image, or creating it with eyes closed?

Sometimes when I meditate, very rarely, I will see images flash in my sight/mind's eye. Hard to tell. But it looks like a slideshow. Very vivid, so I know I CAN do it. I just do not know how. As it happens without warning, and without pattern, I can't recreate it. I started this whole endeavor after reading NeoStarFire's "Visualization Exercises" post614549.html#p614549

But I cannot manage anything close to exercise one from the article, at least not on command. Also another note, when I try to visualize anything, I KNOW it's there, but I can't see it. It's like the thick black fog/darkness is blocking my visualization. Is there a specific chakra I should work with to unblock? I'm just not really sure what I should work on at this point.

Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences, hopefully I can learn something!
Thanks for your help.

Thoughts:

A modern Taoist master once said, at a seminar I attended: "If I tell you there are six hippos wearing pink tutus and holding umbrellas dancing across the ceiling, are you really telling me you didn't see that in your mind's eye?" He was trying to explain how effortless and natural visualisation is. So maybe realising that and allowing yourself to let go of any idea that it's hard to attain may help get rid of subtle blocks around that.

Experiences:

The visualisation exercises I stuck with the longest were in subsequent chapters in Franz Bardon's IIH book. That was also predicated on the idea of building up the visualisation 'muscle' over a sustained period, which is why I mention it. (ie I'm not actually recommending the book as such. It tells you what to do, not how to do it and it demands what nowadays might be seen as incredible amounts of dedication and effort.) As you proceed you get used to holding the image in your awareness for longer without your attention drifting. It's like building a useful, positive habit.

Like any muscle memory, use it or lose it can come into play. But it's not something to try and force, in my opinion. It's a natural facility.

I halted my study/practice of IIH years ago at the Chapter where the visualisation section had you imagining things like a clock ticking, a town etc. If things are quiet around me and it comes to mind, I can still hear the clock ticking. It happens without effort.

Maybe adopt an attitude of play/experimentation?

Or none of what I say may land with you at all, which is fine. Hopefully then someone else's comments will.

Lewk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:05 pm

Thoughts:

A modern Taoist master once said, at a seminar I attended: "If I tell you there are six hippos wearing pink tutus and holding umbrellas dancing across the ceiling, are you really telling me you didn't see that in your mind's eye?" He was trying to explain how effortless and natural visualisation is. So maybe realising that and allowing yourself to let go of any idea that it's hard to attain may help get rid of subtle blocks around that.

Experiences:

The visualisation exercises I stuck with the longest were in subsequent chapters in Franz Bardon's IIH book. That was also predicated on the idea of building up the visualisation 'muscle' over a sustained period, which is why I mention it. (ie I'm not actually recommending the book as such. It tells you what to do, not how to do it and it demands what nowadays might be seen as incredible amounts of dedication and effort.) As you proceed you get used to holding the image in your awareness for longer without your attention drifting. It's like building a useful, positive habit.

Like any muscle memory, use it or lose it can come into play. But it's not something to try and force, in my opinion. It's a natural facility.

I halted my study/practice of IIH years ago at the Chapter where the visualisation section had you imagining things like a clock ticking, a town etc. If things are quiet around me and it comes to mind, I can still hear the clock ticking. It happens without effort.

Maybe adopt an attitude of play/experimentation?

Or none of what I say may land with you at all, which is fine. Hopefully then someone else's comments will.

I appreciate your feedback. Honestly adopting the play mentality has helped greatly in other endeavors and I see no reason for it to not work here. Unfortunately the mentality falters when I think how serious I am about the subject. So I bounce back and fourth and take frequent breaks, as to not drive myself insane.

I agree with the toaist's belief visualization is a muscle, to be strengthened over a prolonged period of time. Now, thinking about this, and the effortless nature which visualization should be, it seems any ol' exercise will do. I mention the candle because it was suggested in a book of Yoga and Kriya I've been reading.

I don't know how much effort is demanded in your readings, but currently I spend 1-3 hours a day on visualization alone, provided I stay awake anyway.

Thanks for your words, I really do appreciate the help.

mrcampncarl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:40 pm I appreciate your feedback. Honestly adopting the play mentality has helped greatly in other endeavors and I see no reason for it to not work here. Unfortunately the mentality falters when I think how serious I am about the subject. So I bounce back and fourth and take frequent breaks, as to not drive myself insane.

I agree with the toaist's belief visualization is a muscle, to be strengthened over a prolonged period of time. Now, thinking about this, and the effortless nature which visualization should be, it seems any ol' exercise will do. I mention the candle because it was suggested in a book of Yoga and Kriya I've been reading.

I don't know how much effort is demanded in your readings, but currently I spend 1-3 hours a day on visualization alone, provided I stay awake anyway.

Thanks for your words, I really do appreciate the help.

You're welcome.

1-3 hours is definitely a significant amount of effort and dedication!

The Franz Bardon book requires that each chapter be mastered sequentially, step by step, before proceeding to the next and, to start with, cold showers, followed by brushing the skin with something like a boar skin brush is how you begin every day....until you finish the book, many months or maybe years later. Or for the rest of your life. That's what puts most people off, I think.

There are 10 chapters. Each is split into 3 sections of explanations & exercises: Magical Schooling of the Spirit (/Mind); of the Soul (/Astral); and of the Body. The visualisation exercises are in the Magical Schooling of the Spirit sections.

Thought control & discipline preceeds concentration exercises, which are followed by concentration exercises on objects, places and people/animals. FB doesn't use the word 'visualisation', as sight is just one sense and his exercises work through all of the senses. Each one builds on the other skills, which you need to have mastered sufficiently. It may take from a few weeks to a month or two to complete the exercises in each chapter. The exercise themselves each set a goal, by which you'll know if you've completed the step.

The actual exercises involve sustaining the concentration image/sound etc for only between 5-30 minutes, as instructed. (ie Not for hours a day.) Daily practice is probably best. So the quality of the concentration is somewhat more important than the length of time the exercise is done for.

The orthodox way to gain most benefit from IIH is to do the whole thing step by step, exactly as instructed, day by day, week by week, month by month and, if necessary, year by year. I think that's also correct to say.

It's virtually blasphemous for me to say this but I think someone probably could usefully extract the visualisation exercises in the first 3 chapters of the practical, second part of the book and do them on their own.

The book is Initiation Into Hermetics by Franz Bardon. It's a mid-20th century classic.

https://www.amazon.com/Initiation-into- ... 1885928122