madgar29 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 4:34 pm as I just posted to @Tarvos I will find out. and tell you all if i am wrong or right. not to be arrogant or not. just to see what is going on with me. am i crazy or is it happening. so i will post again to tell you guys if i am wrong and to tell you guys you are right so we know. but the experiene of the tanto 1 to 2 weeks before order complete to me is crazy but we will we will. then agian. these beings may have not been my personal tanto but a taste of the speices. because when i went under and saw them i had a orange blob under me and im gonna guess those were my multex. sending me into that arena with them.

You missed the point again and again. If my previous explanations weren't clear, I'll try again with a simpler explanation, and I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to discount your experiences or anybody else's here. Let's go through the scenario involving your Tanto to demonstrate my point.

Your Tanto, much like any other spirit, can reach out to you even before you hit the 'purchase' button. This connection could be through dreams or telepathic contact, which is pretty normal. But what they can't do is fully manifest in your space until after the binding process is completed, aka 3 days from now as an example.

To illustrate using your Tanto: you place an order today, and according to CH's schedule, your Tanto's conjuration is due 3 days from now. That's when you could experience a full-fledged manifestation of your Tanto, just like you did. However, the important thing to remember is that a full-fledged manifestation like this can only happen after the binding is completed.

Let's continue with that same order of your Tanto. If you have a large order with CH, it could take a bit more time, especially considering holiday delays. So, you might have already seen your Tanto (which, again, is fairly normal, after the binding is completed), and another 1-2 weeks later, your order is marked as 'completed.' This is when you receive your tracking number, and your order gets shipped out, it doesn't have much in terms of your actual Tanto binding. Because in reality, the binding process for your Tanto was completed long ago, according to CH's conjuration schedule.

You're correct in asserting that you had encounters with your Tanto considerably before your order was officially finalized. This is a normal occurrence. The binding was, in fact, concluded quite a while ago as I tried to explain. Lol.

But what is unusual and impossible is experiencing a fully fledged physical manifestation of your Tanto at the same moment you click 'purchase.' I've previously discussed this with Magnolia, and she confirmed it's not possible especially with custom conjuration. I have quoted her answer above.

Interaction confusion can occur on forums due to the different degrees of manifestations and callings, and the discussion of pre-bound or conjuration. However, you can't witness a full-fledged manifestation before the binding process. If we could, there would be no need for conjurers to bind these companions for us anymore.

So, OP's experience of a full-fledged manifestation means there might have been an unbound presence already around him, familiar with his surroundings and able to manifest there. He has a different thread asking for help with attacks before his purchase on CH.

@Tarvos dreams and interactions are different than full manifestations? your right i do miss the point now. because it's all the same in my eyes. how is visiting you in your dreams or feeling their energy any different than seeing them?

OP first post of the thread he did not state he saw a full-on manifestation. he said he felt and SENSED something/someone. far as we know could have been his spirit guides saying goodnight.

are we reading and pretending to see what we want to see in these posts? look at the first post he said he can sense spirit. not fully manifest for him.



and if ull manifesting and connect is not the same well fudge. everyone person that isnt a visual person is screwed.

@Tarvos

I honestly have nothing against you. I even like you from our live chats on the forums. BUT a big BUT. when I read some of your posts EXCUSE ME IF I READ THEM WRONG as many have read me WRONG as a you know what. But certain Posts you make they rub me wrong, and I feel things are not as clear cut as you make them to be or sometimes you assume. You MAY think I am attacking YOU. In actual reality I am trying to challenge you to see other perspectives. Why I will play the devil's advocate if I need to.

Because some posts I am sorry I have been wrong sure. some of your posts you have been wrong in my opinion. like reincarnating when you were an angelic being beforehand. We had a huge argument in that thread. Then CH themselves offered a binding if you have angel heritage or past lives as angels reconnect with it. I never rubbed that in your face though. lol. My style is to confront head on and to solve the issue. It is not out of cruelty or stupidity as I said if I am wrong, I am wrong.

But. as this OP posted he uses blips as communication that's a thing HE/SHE DEVELOPED so I don't know why u state subconscious mind when you stated yourself you mediate due to trauma, and you can find that peaceful state btw that's mediating ') but I won't debate it. you may call it what you want.

He stated he FELT energy around him as he ordered his triad protection.

no full manifestations. no blips are bad to him. - I agree protection should be taken seriously here. I do agree with that. but i do feel you kind of laid into him/she. by assuming? if i am reading your posts wrong so be it. you can come off as cold. I cannot tell you how to talk but sometimes i do find it you come off as cold.

madgar29 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:25 pm @Tarvos dreams and interactions are different than full manifestations? your right i do miss the point now. because it's all the same in my eyes. how is visiting you in your dreams or feeling their energy any different than seeing them?

OP first post of the thread he did not state he saw a full-on manifestation. he said he felt and SENSED something/someone. far as we know could have been his spirit guides saying goodnight.

are we reading and pretending to see what we want to see in these posts? look at the first post he said he can sense spirit. not fully manifest for him.



and if ull manifesting and connect is not the same well fudge. everyone person that isnt a visual person is screwed.

To help hopefully smooth things over, I will agree that I may not have been as precise as I needed to in my original post. I tried my best to focus on only the reported symptoms (the activity of the spirits I can "hear" in my mind as a shimmering sound, and when hitting purchase, feeling a sort of energy approach from behind. I do not know what that means, it could have been our energies touching, it could have been them acknowledging the compact, it could have been an unbound, I do not know.

So, the reported symptoms may not be in line with what's considered a full manifestation, that and I am unaware what that even is (I'm still working through the encyclopedia. )... Also, how I sense may not be how other people sense and that's okay.

I mainly asked so I could see if there would be any assurances as to what that could have been. I have received multiple potential answers, and I am grateful for that. Thank you. Some of them are concerning, others make me think that they may not be... in either case, patience is called for.

As for the disagreements, I really and honestly did not anticipate this would happen... If you've read the other thread I made, and read through to the update, you'll realize that I have learned a lesson about that in that, especially with practitioners or other spiritually active individuals, it is best to resolve things peacefully whenever possible, and to avoid bad blood from fomenting.

Tarvos wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 3:42 pm
Magnolia's response already covers the topic adequately. I encourage you to thoroughly read through the thread before adding your input to avoid confusion for the OP. References to 'pre-bounds' or 'custom conjurations' and the distinction between full manifestations versus the attempt to establish connections could help improve clarity.

Typically, in your case, it's normal. Spirits will and can reach out to connect with you and express their interest in accompanying you. During a custom conjuration, these same spirits may emerge when your name is invoked.

However, in the case of the OP, he reported experiencing a full-fledged physical manifestation, in his home akin to a bound companion's presence - something impossible without an existing binding, which hasn't even happened yet. Spirits cannot manifest in the capacity of a companion unless they were previously present as unbounded entities. OP's questions for assistance in another different thread, about dealing with psychic attacks, were indicative of unbound presences. So, the noticeable presence he experienced wasn't from a CH spirit. It wasn't an attempt to connect or a manifestation of telepathy like y'all.

Without getting into unnecessary detail I will mention that though the primary form of connection was telepathic, their presence was briefly felt in the room including sensations of touch. HOWEVER, and this is the critical element I didn't mention in my initial message, I came to learn that the whole encounter was made possible as a "surprise" from my Cleopatra Djinn, who opened a temporary channel to the spirits she was able to determine would be bound to me. I have no reason to believe they were local unbounds. I hadn't put much thought into the mechanisms that might allow a Djinn to do so though I've taken her at her word that she is not restricted to linear time in the earthen realm and she has a certain degree of precognitive ability. She made it clear to me that this is NOT something she can easily arrange on request, so I didn't dig too much further into the topic and just treated it as a special moment of mystery. If we are to really analyze this experience then it could bring up some interesting questions as to which spirits might be able to predict the outcome of a conjuration. That, I suspect, would be a whole other can of worms without much of a way to vet. The reason I shared all this was simply to say that some form of manifestation at time of purchase is possible in my experience, though the conditions required for it to happen are far different from the usual chain of events that surround a typical conjuration. I do agree that under normal circumstances the only way a spirit would in any way make its presence known at the moment of purchase is if it were a local unbound.

Which brings us back to the original topic of @Redregon 's experience. The fact that he was dealing with an existing unbound spirit already is by far a deciding factor here, and given those circumstances does merit a much more critical analysis. I have, indeed, encountered tricksters that tried to masquerade as spirit companions. Early on it caught me off guard and set me back quite a bit spiritually. My advice to him is rather than dwell too much over which perspective is "right" here, to focus on yourself and the space around you. I suspect the answers will become more clear in time without any of us having to come to agreement over this general topic of discussion. I for one am quite fascinated to see an actual debate and questioning of ideas between regulars here, as it can sometimes seem a bit scarce on the forums for better or worse

jdhthegr8 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 2:19 am Which brings us back to the original topic of @Redregon 's experience. The fact that he was dealing with an existing unbound spirit already is by far a deciding factor here, and given those circumstances does merit a much more critical analysis. I have, indeed, encountered tricksters that tried to masquerade as spirit companions. Early on it caught me off guard and set me back quite a bit spiritually. My advice to him is rather than dwell too much over which perspective is "right" here, to focus on yourself and the space around you. I suspect the answers will become more clear in time without any of us having to come to agreement over this general topic of discussion. I for one am quite fascinated to see an actual debate and questioning of ideas between regulars here, as it can sometimes seem a bit scarce on the forums for better or worse

Yes, I am aware that they could be unbounds. That being said, I want to try and look at the behaviour that they have displayed so far (it has been a positive.) I am limiting my contact with them (they only pop up in my mind whenever my mind drifts to them, they do not elicit any blips or changes in the shimmering sound. The one that pops up the most is the one that either is, or is emulating, a hellhound (they are more comfortable appearing as a border collie, not a grisly mass of raw flesh and sinew like I had first imagined a hellhound to look like.))

As for the other issue from the other thread, that's handled. It has been handled by allowing my spiritual team to do what they do best (they were probably keeping their distance because I wasn't ready for them yet.) The cause seemed to be enmity in the hearts of all the people involved that were angry or had issue with things that have been done where I live (I live with two other practitioners.) It is why I do not want there to be bad blood (especially on account of one of my first serious threads here) because it can easily turn into bad energies being thrown around or sent to one another and that's just not a fun time for anyone.

What I plan to do is wait for the CH team to contact me before I go further than I already have with these three spirits. I know that limiting my interaction is best, and they also seem to be respecting that (not complaining, waiting patiently whenever my mind drifts to them.) So, if they are unbounds, they are behaving exceptionally well, and in line with how I would expect a CH bound spirit to do (though I am not saying this is a full manifestation, it could just be something like an echo in my mind or some sort of telepathic whisper or a sort of psychic acknowledgement.) They also have not even once attempted to invade my energy... though I do have protections in place, I haven't felt them even try. So, bound or no, these spirits are being respectful of my boundaries.

For what it's worth, the spirits that I have contracted have arrived now. Though I didn't get the name or description of the last one (the Volkh) I did make a formal "hello" to them.

When I instructed each of them to step forward, they also let me feel their energies. I suspect this is so that I can know them.

I have asked them to take up guard duty and do what they are here to do.

Strangest thing is, I believe this may have corresponded with a spell I cast a while ago (for friendship, and to help me be a better friend.) I didn't really expect that the friends I called out for would be spiritual in nature.

Redregon wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 3:47 am For what it's worth, the spirits that I have contracted have arrived now. Though I didn't get the name or description of the last one (the Volkh) I did make a formal "hello" to them.

When I instructed each of them to step forward, they also let me feel their energies. I suspect this is so that I can know them.

I have asked them to take up guard duty and do what they are here to do.

Strangest thing is, I believe this may have corresponded with a spell I cast a while ago (for friendship, and to help me be a better friend.) I didn't really expect that the friends I called out for would be spiritual in nature.

Now that your spirits have arrived, you should be able to sense their energies. I hope you can differentiate between their presence and that of any entity accompanying you when you made the CH purchase, since a fully fledged physical manifestation typically occurs with unbounds, or companions who already got bound. Consequently, any unbound presence should be promptly escorted away.

Certain spirits, particularly those in protection, can be extremely private to the point of withholding information from the conjurer who performed the conjuration on your behalf. As such, it would be upon you to discover their appearance and names.

Regarding the spell you cast earlier, it doesn't seem to be linked with your introduction to CH and your subsequent adoption of their spirits. Given that the intent behind the spell was to enhance your ability to be a better friend, its manifestation is apparent in your situation concerning your neighbor. You managed to not only resolve the misunderstanding but also foster a budding friendship, which might potentially benefit your other practitioner friends as well. All things considered, you seem to have successfully embodied the role of a good friend on all fronts.

Tarvos wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:29 am Regarding the spell you cast earlier, it doesn't seem to be linked with your introduction to CH and your subsequent adoption of their spirits. Given that the intent behind the spell was to enhance your ability to be a better friend, its manifestation is apparent in your situation concerning your neighbor. You managed to not only resolve the misunderstanding but also foster a budding friendship, which might potentially benefit your other practitioner friends as well. All things considered, you seem to have successfully embodied the role of a good friend on all fronts.

No, that's not what happened at all... but that's neither here nor there.

I also only mentioned the spell because I thought it was an interesting coincidence (funny how it goes like that innit?)

jdhthegr8 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 2:19 am Without getting into unnecessary detail I will mention that though the primary form of connection was telepathic, their presence was briefly felt in the room including sensations of touch. HOWEVER, and this is the critical element I didn't mention in my initial message, I came to learn that the whole encounter was made possible as a "surprise" from my Cleopatra Djinn, who opened a temporary channel to the spirits she was able to determine would be bound to me. I have no reason to believe they were local unbounds. I hadn't put much thought into the mechanisms that might allow a Djinn to do so though I've taken her at her word that she is not restricted to linear time in the earthen realm and she has a certain degree of precognitive ability. She made it clear to me that this is NOT something she can easily arrange on request, so I didn't dig too much further into the topic and just treated it as a special moment of mystery. If we are to really analyze this experience then it could bring up some interesting questions as to which spirits might be able to predict the outcome of a conjuration. That, I suspect, would be a whole other can of worms without much of a way to vet. The reason I shared all this was simply to say that some form of manifestation at time of purchase is possible in my experience, though the conditions required for it to happen are far different from the usual chain of events that surround a typical conjuration. I do agree that under normal circumstances the only way a spirit would in any way make its presence known at the moment of purchase is if it were a local unbound.

Which brings us back to the original topic of @Redregon 's experience. The fact that he was dealing with an existing unbound spirit already is by far a deciding factor here, and given those circumstances does merit a much more critical analysis. I have, indeed, encountered tricksters that tried to masquerade as spirit companions. Early on it caught me off guard and set me back quite a bit spiritually. My advice to him is rather than dwell too much over which perspective is "right" here, to focus on yourself and the space around you. I suspect the answers will become more clear in time without any of us having to come to agreement over this general topic of discussion. I for one am quite fascinated to see an actual debate and questioning of ideas between regulars here, as it can sometimes seem a bit scarce on the forums for better or worse

That's an interesting one. Making predictions about the outcome of a conjuration is possible to all spirits who are skilled in telepathy. Considering they are spirits, they have the capacity to interact with each other. In your instance, you felt a calling and your Cleopatra Djinn seemed to already know who would join your spiritual family. I'm confident she has already engaged with them. I once encountered a listing in which several of us were able to interact with the spirit, but a few couldn't due to their skill is lacking in telepathy. However, as most of us were drawn to this charming spirit, I decided to welcome them into our home. If we see a custom conjuration listing and feel a calling, some spirits may not have the capability to predict such events. They wouldn't comprehend what's happening initially until you narrate the occurrences to them. Lol.

My similar experience relates to discovering a shop that offers several echelons of spirits. My Keep instinctively directed me towards the High Elf section, something I had already contemplated. I was advised to opt for a particular low tier, which was something I wouldn't consider normally. And the Elf who consequently came home was the same one we had interacted with.

In your scenario, the telepathic communication was pretty standard. However, the brief, intense presence you sensed, which is classified as a fully fledged physical manifestation, is typically particular to bound companions. Unbounds may achieve this if they are already in your surroundings. However, this kind of manifestation is improbable without extraneous assistance - like the support from your Djinn. It was your Djinn that facilitated this by opening a channel to bring them to you. Therefore, this interaction can be likened to a conversation with an unbound spirit, as they were not bound at the time.

Consider this as a surprise gift, as facilitating such an event requires significant energy from your Djinn. That's why she won't be able to perform this same action for every listing that catches your interest. However, if such manifestations could happen all the time, there wouldn't be a need for any of us to pay for a binding of a companion. We could simply engage with a listing, communicate with them, and bring them home as an unbound entity. Lol. I wouldn't classify this as a conventional debate but more an outcome of miscommunication. None of us (myself included) provided specifics about custom conjuration, pre-bounds, or about which manifestations are possible and which aren't without an appropriate binding when we shared our experiences. Additionally, the conversation has been ongoing for a while. Some participants may have skipped reading the entire thread, instead choosing to respond based on just the first page, thus missing out on crucial details and points of discussion. Depending on your perspective, this conversation can indeed be entertaining. Lol.